Unfortunatly I have encountered the notorious knock/rattle from the engine, both the cam chain and cam chain tensioner have be replaced with no luck, so I decided to bite the bullet and book the bike into my local garage who have told me that they have phoned Suzuki regarding the problem and it's something to do with the camshaft being springed(or something) and that Suzuki bought out a Shim kit to stop any movement in the cam shafts. The guys at the garage are currently trying to get a part number for the shims. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Anyone know what the part number is, or even a homemade solution?


Cheers

ED

The problem that makes that sound is due to camshaft end play.  It slides side to side slightly and makes that noise and is harmless to the heads.  The Suzuki fix was to put a wavy washer on one end of each camshaft to absorb the play and help stop the noise but my 05 gs had the fix already and still made the noise, just not as badly as some of the older e's I have heard. 

I'll look for a part number. 

What year is your bike?

The part that suzuki threw in there to help the noise a little is actually called a 'wave washer' and the part number from bell suzuki is '09164-22012' 

If you go here clicky

Put in parts for a 06 gs500 and look at the diagram for the camshaft - valve system.  There you can look and see how they put the little cheap fix in there. 

If it is camshaft endplay that you are hearing though i wouldn't spend to much as it probably won't go away completely.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=46088.msg517903#msg517903

Thanks for the replies its a 2006 model (faired if that makes and difference) 

The garage have phoned, and I have two options:
                                                                     Source the parts myself(from the US at a minimum cost of $60: nearly all of that is shipping)
                                                                     Get the parts made up(using the official Suzuki measurements)

Does anyone know the measurements, specifically the internal and external diameter of the washers?

Cheers

ED

Parts fiches would indicate the washers on the left side are 22x30x1 mm.  There is some confusion as to when the washers with the wave washer were added to the right side. If you must fix it you can pull the valve cover and measure the sidelay clearance to see what thickness you need.  It's probably only one camshaft knocking.

My 97 GS bought new had a knocking camshaft that went away and so did my 02 GS.  I checked the 97 and one camshaft had more sideplay than the other.  I broke the 97 in on 10W-40 oil and ran 15W-50 synthetic for 50k miles and then went to the 15W-40 heavy duty oils.

My 02 GS had the knock occasionally when I first got it used with 4k miles on it and after I changed the oil to the 15W-40 heavy duty (Delvac 1300 or Rotella) it hasn't knocked in the over 60k miles since. 

I wouldn't worry about it in any event since it's harmless.  Only knocks when engine is hot and at idle and goes away as you pick up the revs to a fast idle or faster.  Obviously the centrifugal force of the running camchain tightens it up as speed picks up and the camshaft can't wonder back and forth any longer.  All very harmless but an oil change might fix it.  Neither of my well used and well worn GS engines knocked again after I went to the Heavy Duty (truck/diesel) oils  I never worried about the noise once I determined what it was.

Hello from Denmark

I have the shims, 4 of them in different thickness, you can have them, i no longer have the GS, and never got around to fix the problem.

Just need your full Adress in the UK
Will send them monday in a normal letter

André S Hansen
CBR1000F
Denmark

More info
I got 4 Washers
The parts numbers is
1*09181-22167
1*09160-22074
1*09160-22075
1*09160-22076

If you need the WASHER, WAVE 09164-22012, or WASHER (T: 0.7) 09181-22132, i can't help you

Can't wait to ride my bike again

André S Hansen
CBR1000F
Denmark

Quote from: Bobbleboy on February 14, 2009, 06:07:09 PM
More info
I got 4 Washers
The parts numbers is
1*09181-22167
1*09160-22074
1*09160-22075
1*09160-22076

If you need the WASHER, WAVE 09164-22012, or WASHER (T: 0.7) 09181-22132, i can't help you

Can't wait to ride my bike again

André S Hansen
CBR1000F
Denmark

Thanks for the offer, but its the wavey washers and the ones either side that im after.

The parts im after are:

4 X 09181-22132  (t: 0.7)
2 X 09164-22012 (wave washer)

Would anybody on here be able to get some and put them on ebay? As I dont quite fancy paying $70 for 6 washers.

Cheers

ED

Quote from: Twiglet on February 15, 2009, 07:45:46 AM

Thanks for the offer, but its the wavey washers and the ones either side that im after.

The parts im after are:

4 X 09181-22132  (t: 0.7)
2 X 09164-22012 (wave washer)

Would anybody on here be able to get some and put them on ebay? As I dont quite fancy paying $70 for 6 washers.

Cheers

ED

Did they make this fix only in the US?  Otherwise parts should be available from UK Suzuki dealer.  At least they should be able to order them by part number.

The later models have the wavy washer set on the other side (left) and the camshaft numbers have been changed so it must be necessary to turn back the shoulder on the existing camshaft to fit those parts in?  There are some slightly thicker washers for the right side but you couldn't screw with these too much without messing up camchain alignment.

Just getting curious about how the dealers make the change on existing knocking bikes that don't have the wavy washer set.  They must change the camshaft too?  I'm happy with my 02 with the 15W-40 Delvac/Rotella oils,  hasn't knocked again for years.

Apparently the Shims/Washers were only an interim solution, the permanent fix being replacing the camshafts with ones that don't use shims/washers.

This is what Suzuki say about it:
ftp://ftp.cybutek.net/../wainesworld/wainesworld.cybutek.net/Pictures/IMG_0009.JPG

gsJack the garage I use cannot get hold of the washers, and I have had a look myself online with no luck. 

ED

Couldn't make your link work.

Looks like they're putting the wave washer set on the right side of the camshafts in place of the single washer that has always been there.  Should work as a fix on existing bikes if there is room to squeeze it in.

New parts fiches thru 2008 show the single washer back on the right side and the wave washer set on the left with a different camshaft.  This must be the permanent fix.

http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/Suzuki/2008/Motorcycles/18997_11.gif

Found US Suzuki service bulletin that calls for replacing camshafts and exhaust buckets plus the washers to fix knock:

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/attachments/suzuki-line/107537d1166036602-gs-gsx-gsx-r-139-revised-gs500fk4-k5-engine-knock-idle-asmc_004983.pdf

Finally reconnected with the UK Suzuki service bulletin you linked above.  It's not clear if they're calling for camshaft change or not.  Don't think the parts will fit otherwise.  Saved it here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/gs500camknockuk.jpg

Just had a word with my contact behind the parts desk who tells me the shims on their own are not suitable for use with the old cams. You can buy the shims and w-washers seperately for the k5 and on models but they wont fit pre-k5 camshafts.

The part numbers quoted on the service bulletin are for new cams and shims.

12710-01831 In camshaft (and shims) £162.31
12720-01841 Ex camshaft (and shims) £169.80

£330+...ouch  

Quote from: gsJack on February 14, 2009, 08:41:09 AM
Parts fiches would indicate the washers on the left side are 22x30x1 mm.  There is some confusion as to when the washers with the wave washer were added to the right side. If you must fix it you can pull the valve cover and measure the sidelay clearance to see what thickness you need.  It's probably only one camshaft knocking.

My 97 GS bought new had a knocking camshaft that went away and so did my 02 GS.  I checked the 97 and one camshaft had more sideplay than the other.  I broke the 97 in on 10W-40 oil and ran 15W-50 synthetic for 50k miles and then went to the 15W-40 heavy duty oils.

My 02 GS had the knock occasionally when I first got it used with 4k miles on it and after I changed the oil to the 15W-40 heavy duty (Delvac 1300 or Rotella) it hasn't knocked in the over 60k miles since. 

I wouldn't worry about it in any event since it's harmless.  Only knocks when engine is hot and at idle and goes away as you pick up the revs to a fast idle or faster.  Obviously the centrifugal force of the running camchain tightens it up as speed picks up and the camshaft can't wonder back and forth any longer.  All very harmless but an oil change might fix it.  Neither of my well used and well worn GS engines knocked again after I went to the Heavy Duty (truck/diesel) oils  I never worried about the noise once I determined what it was.

just finished top end overhaul, 2002e as was running on 1 cylinder,engine sounds 100 % better apart from it has developed this bloody iratic knocking thud on idle and low revs,i shut down the engine as was very concerend.
have spent hours on here researching the problem and i do beleive it to be the above,but obviosly im not certain,still worried as you can actually feel the knock,think its coming from the camsahfts

only thing during rebuild was that my torque rench doesnt go down to 8 nm torque which if i remember rightly is the torque for the camshaft journal caps im hoping i havent tightend them down enough.

the other issue was i wasnt sure as to the tension of the camchain,so i let it re-spring under its own load,but the chain felt a little loose,i was able to tighten by turning the screw on the chain tesioner a little- should this be done? maybe my tensioner is faulty if it wouldnt tension propery under its spring load?

i am very apprehensive about turning it over again tomorrow, the oil is of bike grade 10sae 10w/40 which i will drain after 10 hours of running it in,maybe change a grade of oil?

i know this has been bought up in ther threads soooooooooo many times,just hoping for a little assurance i guess,but i dont think i can post the bike to you for you guys to listen to it anyway!lol

i will try and pm twiglet as he is here in the UK,to see if he sorted his

i spoke to the local suzuki dealer today,he said that he has heard of this problem before!- yeh too-right you have matey .

i asked him if he knows of a cure,he isnt aware of one but will phone his suzuki rep on monday.i explained to him that i can actually move the exhaust cam by hand back and forth,he said that this is not a problem.

i also asked if i could put another shim on it (double shiming/washer) he said that maywell work,asked if this would effect the the alignment of the tachometer drive gear,he said it should'nt

feel abit releived so will re-strip the bike alittle for a clean-up and touch-up with paint here and there and get her fit for the m.o.t

p.s i have been deliberating about the pilot screw settings,noting that alot of people set them at 3 turns out,at present i have set then as the haynes manual suggests-2 3/4 turns out,i live in england` and we are just comming into better weather possible max 80 degrees on a hot day.
if you have yours set at 3 turns out,could you let me know the benefit please?



i will take it their for a m.o.t and whilst im their i will get them to listen to it for re-assurence

thanks for reading this,
Ant

gs500Ant I would be interested to know if the double shimming will cure the problem, let me know how it goes.