My primary goal for a next bike will be a carbueretor that can be removed without doing 42 other steps first, or fuel injection.
I would go buy either a new Triumph Bonnie (or a classic one) but i'm concerned it will just be another PITA like this thing. 

Are all bikes prone to constant tinkering???

This bike of mine has just been problem after problem this year ( bought it almost exactly one year ago ).

Heck i was going to sell it, but when i posted it for sale, i figured i would give it one last ride..... new OIL LEAK.  So i cancelled the sale posting.

I would be completely happy with this bike, and not consider a new one IF IT FRIGGIN WORKED!  (I don't want to spend $7k+ for another toy)

First problem was: bad tank petcock (fuel starvation).  Took months to figure out and fix.  But at least is was ride able at the time.
Then shortly after that an oil leak.  Turned out to be a bad crush washer for big bolt that can take a fuel gauge.  Two weeks to find and fix.
Then my carbs weren't getting fuel.  Turned out to be both float valves were stuck closed.  About a week to figure and fix.
I have one tight exhaust valve; 1 loose intake valve, 1 loose exhaust valve, one valve ok.  (how did they get loose?)  No point in fixing until i can get my bike to stop leaking; one leak after another....
Somewhere in there my battery died on me.
Some time or other i ended up with fuel in my oil.
Some time or other my speedometer cable was leaking oil.
Some time or other i basically gave up and just let her sit outside for a month or two, and pretended i didn't own it.
I've had fuel dumping out of carbs, and i've had no fuel in carbs.  I've had plugs that look lean, i've had them look rich.  I've had  oil leaks occur, then magically cure themselves.

I have spent more time broke down on the side of the road than riding.  I've spent much more time wrenching than riding.

Heck, i've owned some real POS cars in my time, never have i had anything fail as often as this thing.  Heck, i'd get excited and probably throw a party if something really expensive were to break... then i wouldn't feel bad about leaving it in a ditch with the VIN scratched off.  Heck, i'd appreciate it if something simple, but actually an important part breaks, like a chain or sprocket... something truly mechanical, obvious, easy to fix.

I've got brand new tires i bought in December... figured i would need to install them by April, and have new tires for the year...
But instead all i have is less than 300 new miles on the Speedometer since Christmas.  I've got a pile of old parts (mostly fuel related) beginning to build.  This bike never sat for more than one week without me attempting to ride it (except the time i was fed up and just walked away from it for a month or two), so i don't think the problem is lack of use.)

I've even tried a different set of carbs... ran worse.... ordered a second set of carbs, ran the same.

So it ran okay when i first bought it.... but i was just putting around last year.  Never went over 60mph and never really twisted the grip.  This year, i can't get the thing to stay running long enough to find out how it runs (though the ONE time i went for a decent ride it ran better than it did in January).

So it's been 9 months of struggling with this thing.  In that 9 months i have had one good ride.  I have had the fuel tank off upwards of 80 times.  I have spent many many hours diagnosing, trying this and that, diddling with this, fiddling with that.  It has been something minor every time, but major enough that i felt it unsafe to ride with it like that (or just emberassing, like the oil leaks creating a smoke cloud at stop signs etc).   The only upside is i haven't spent much money on it this year (maybe $200 for miscellaneous stuff.

Just today i figured out a way to remove and install the float bowls without removing the carb from the bike.  That will be a time saver.  Especially since now the bike won't run.  It is acting like it is flooded some times, other times it is acting like it is lean.  I don't get it.  I've followed the procedures for setting everything i can think of.  This morning i had fuel dumping out of the carbs... turned out to be float set too high (how that occurred ?dunno, everything with the float looked normal, height adjuster appeared to be at same angle as always (now i have a serious up-bend to lower the float height to proper level))

I can't even get this thing to run well, long enough for me to figure giving it a bath makes sense.

Just seems no matter what i do.... this bike is just not going to let me ride it.

Compression: good
Float height: good
Carb sync: good (or at least last time it ran)
Plugs:  they're new.  The old ones really did not look that bad.
everything else i can think of: ok

Only problem i can think of that might be a problem is that tight exhaust valve (but it's not THAT tight, it is .02).
This thing should start and idle off of one cylinder anyway... screw that exhaust valve for now.

GRRRRRRRR

End of rant (for now).

Phantom Oil Leaks: If, when you check your oil, it is right up at the very top of the Full mark, you could have a tad too much oil in it. Then, under certain conditions, while riding you increase the oil pressure and Some squeezes past a seal or gasket - but only due to the increased pressure. Cause you don't experience those some identical conditions all the time, you do not see that same "leak" all the time. An oil level between the L and F is fine and should not see those high pressures which, under certain conditions, might seep past something. What oil are you using, as a matter of curiosity?

Fuel issues... you still have a lawnmower fuel filter on, don't you? Piss it off and run the fuel line as Suzuki designed it. If you're anal about having a filter for some reason it Must be for motorcycles and NOT cars. Something like this http://www.bikebandit.com/visu-filter-slimline-compact-body-fuel-filter

This



NOT This



I have seen smaller fuel filters in a local m'cycle store. So have a look around. I do NOT run a fuel filter because of the Chance of restricted fuel flow.

Fuel flow can also be restricted due to slightly pinched/kinked fuel lines; an aftermarket petcock which doesn't have the needed fuel flow rate, vacuum lock from blocked breather in tank. Have you ruled those out?

Your bike is an 01, are you still running (or trying to run) the 06 carbs on it?

When you say your valves are Loose, what are your actual measurements. Yes, one is 0.02 but what are the others?

Your plugs might be new but have you checked to see if you're getting spark?

Checked timing?

Anyway.... Besides all your issues....

A NEW bike should NOT have such issues. Neither of my bikes (one bought new the other 2nd hand) have any issues whatsoever. So "no", all bikes are NOT a PITA.

If your issues are beyond you - your patience, whatever - and you have the cash on hand, your two choices are... drop the GS at a reputable mechanic and pay him to Fix it (be prepared for a bill close to the cost of the bike) or get yourself the Bonnie. If you would be seeing yourself on a Bonnie at some point anyway, why not now?

New Bonnies in Australia are $12,500  And 2nd hand they are for sale for close to $10,000. The Bonnies were more but have come down in price to compete with Kawasaki's W800 (a sweet bike to ride, much like a GS in handling etc.)

Michael

Oil level is closer to the L than F.  The oil i am using is: maxima 10w-40 synthetic blend (what the local shop sells).
Not running any kind of fuel filter any longer [i only ever did for a short period of time] except the tank petcock screen.
The loose valves.... i don't remember the exact numbers.... but i remember seeing that they would be dead on if some person did them with a inch feeler gauges (as opposed to metric) and was off by one decimal... So... pretty friggin loose.  (i 'think' i 'remember' them being .13 and .12.... but i'm not sure, maybe i checked those and it was looser and decided heck with it...)
I am running the original 2001 carbs [correct, the 2006 carbs ran like doo doo, neat looking paper weights now].
I am getting spark.  I have never had a no-spark condition to my knowledge; it has worked every time i have checked it.
I have not checked timing... i will do that once it gets running well enough to check it i reckon.  (you meant ignition timing right?  I will have to read up on it for motorcycles in general... car would be easy...) (I will have to read up on checking cam timing; but i don't suspect that to cause such weird non-persistent issues.)

I got the bike to start today.  One carb bowl had the needle stuck shut again (replaced needle with one out of another carb), and the other had too much fuel in the bowl... adjusted.  [makes no sense because i adjusted both spot on last weekend].  So i seem to have carbs with wandering float levels.  I did not get them spot on today, i ran out of patience, right carb is about 3mm high, left carb is about 3mm low.  I will wait until tomorrow to get them set better.  I will also need to re-sync them now.

I am running an aftermarket tank petock (new from oldbikebarn, original had a clogged screen) and an aftermarket frame petcock (the honda 250 mx one).  But i have ruled those out by bypassing them whenever i remove the tank... and using a homemade fuel tank (an old copper canteen that i brazed a 5/16" nipple onto [i normally use a filter after that, but not always]) directly to carb; and same problem (whatever that days' problem is) remains.
I am running tygon tubing (i think it is 3/8", with good spring connectors on all fittings) and it has no kinks, all smooth bends.

.... just another day of wrenching instead of riding...

RE: your wandering fuel levels: Could be worn/hard/cracked o-rings on the float needle seats.

The worst thing for a bike is to let it sit.  O-rings deteriorate, fuel and oil break down, parts that usually slide against each other stick together.... So if you buy a bike that has been sitting without being ridden, it will have lots of problems. Then you will spend lots of time wrenching instead of riding (sitting without being ridden), see the vicious cycle?

So, if you want to ride instead of turn wrenches, get a new bike or one that is ridden regularly.  Or keep at it with your bike and ride with small oil leaks and (slightly) rich or lean condition.

i know EXACTLY how you feel. after fixing a fuel leak this morning due to a fuel line, guess what?

I started it up and it choked at 4krpm just fine, then it got llower and lower and lower...stall.

started again, really rough and LOW idle on full choke, took off choke, stall stall stall

my next bike will NOT be carbed, i can tell you that lol

mine has 8k miles and it's giving me hell, whereas my manager's 1000rr has 20k+ miles and not a single major problem

as for your oil leak, make sure all the bolts are tight and the o-ring seal is good (mine busted after i put it on and ran it)

Youre not telling us something. Im willing to put money on you trying to fix your bike and screwing up as the source of most of your problems.

I cant think of a single WELL MAINTAINED gs500 with the same problems. My bike is a bit finicky and im going to get a new exhaust/air-filter combo with a jet kit installed so it will run even better. I bought my bike from a guy who didnt maintain it at all and performed most of the rebuild and repair piece by piece under the guidance of the Hayne's manual and my friend.

My bike warms up quickly now, and warms up only a minute or so slower than a fuel injected bike. Its idle holds strong and ive once again managed to fix my hanging idle.

Im not bragging. I just find your story lacking someone to blame (yourself).

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on September 24, 2011, 07:17:58 PM

Quote from: rayshon on September 24, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
i know EXACTLY how you feel. after fixing a fuel leak this morning due to a fuel line, guess what?

I started it up and it choked at 4krpm just fine, then it got llower and lower and lower...stall.

started again, really rough and LOW idle on full choke, took off choke, stall stall stall

my next bike will NOT be carbed, i can tell you that lol

mine has 8k miles and it's giving me hell, whereas my manager's 1000rr has 20k+ miles and not a single major problem

as for your oil leak, make sure all the bolts are tight and the o-ring seal is good (mine busted after i put it on and ran it)

Youre not telling us something. Im willing to put money on you trying to fix your bike as the source of most of your problems.

I cant think of a single WELL MAINTAINED gs500 with the same problems. My bike is a bit finicky and im going to get a new exhaust/air-filter combo with a jet kit installed so it will run even better. I bought my bike from a guy who didnt maintain it at all and performed most of the rebuild and repair piece by piece under the guidance of the Hayne's manual and my friend.

My bike warms up quickly now, and warms up only a minute or so slower than a fuel injected bike. Its idle holds strong and ive once again managed to fix my hanging idle.

Im not bragging. I just find your story lacking someone to blame (yourself).

I dunno maybe you're right, maybe it is me. Or maybe it's my particular bike. or maybe a previous owner.

i don't know and I for sure can't figure it out, so i'm gonna send it to a mechanic for repairs and hope that it'll run like yours does so I can be happy again

ive had me bike for 1 year and ive never had a problem..... well there was the fact my battery didn't charge, but that was because my bike was knocked over on the right hand side and all the magic ran out the breather hose. once i poured some magic back in and gave it a little charge all was good.

i work on the principal if it aint broke dont fix it.... and not to assume i can if i cant (you know ass'u n"me).

Quote from: XLAR8 on September 24, 2011, 07:31:50 PM
ive had me bike for 1 year and ive never had a problem..... well there was the fact my battery didn't charge, but that was because my bike was knocked over on the right hand side and all the magic ran out the breather hose. once i poured some magic back in and gave it a little charge all was good.

i work on the principal if it aint broke dont fix it.... and not to assume i can if i cant (you know ass'u n"me).

how many miles? also do you clean your carbs at all? i know a guy with 30k miles on his GS and he never had to clean his carbs once..

Quote from: rayshon on September 24, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
my next bike will NOT be carbed, i can tell you that lol

mine has 8k miles and it's giving me hell, whereas my manager's 1000rr has 20k+ miles and not a single major problem

My GS has almost 44,000kms on it and ne'er a problem. Then again, it is completely stock - no rejetting or messing about with how it come from Suzuki.

Michael

Fuel in oil, fouled plugs, and fuel overflow out the carbs are all different symptoms of a single problem. Sorry you've had bad luck with your GS; it's usually a pretty reliable bike.

Quote from: Paulcet on September 24, 2011, 05:58:13 PM
RE: your wandering fuel levels: Could be worn/hard/cracked o-rings on the float needle seats.

The worst thing for a bike is to let it sit.  O-rings deteriorate, fuel and oil break down, parts that usually slide against each other stick together.... So if you buy a bike that has been sitting without being ridden, it will have lots of problems. Then you will spend lots of time wrenching instead of riding (sitting without being ridden), see the vicious cycle?

So, if you want to ride instead of turn wrenches, get a new bike or one that is ridden regularly.  Or keep at it with your bike and ride with small oil leaks and (slightly) rich or lean condition.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  It has 13,500 miles or so on it.  It is a 2001 so it is 10 years old, that is only about 1100 miles a year.

I've already ordered 2 new needles and seats.  Maybe that will cure some of the issues.  I guess i will find out next weekend.  I figured a float got stuck twice.... something is wrong... replace it (i used a spare float needle simply because it was available and meant to be temporary).

I'm sure i will keep wrenching on this thing until i either wear it  out from riding it, or it has internal damage, or all the bolts are rounded off from repeated loosening/tightening... i'm too cheap to buy a new bike.  When the weather is nice, i really enjoy wrenching on it anyway; but riding it would be better.

It's really just the fuel system that has been the worst of it all... I could deal with it if it were just the few oil leaks it's had; and the valves would have been sorted out long ago if it were running well.

You don't have to have the bike running to check and adjust the valves. If you do it, it will be one less thing you need to worry about when you're trying to diagnose a problem.

sounds like your in need of a full and thorough carb rebuild.

My bike had a lot of issues when I first got it. PO was a tard. I spent the first couple years fixing issues and riding it when I could. It spent the first two winters in a hundred pieces fixing different issues, to be put back together each spring. I've now been riding it for the last couple years with no brake-down's, and only working on it to improve/mod things. Oh by the way, it had 19K miles on it when I got it, and it's about to roll over to 40k miles next week. Another thing is if you have the room, pick up another cheap bike. It sounds like asking for trouble, but if you can keep one going at a time it'll keep your motivation up. Good luck.

I have an 02' Honda CH80 with a 16mm carb and an even smaller pilot jet. It has 3000 miles on it, that's about 300 miles a year or 3 tanks of gas a year, anyway my point is it sits allot and I have NEVER had the carb off it yet. You ask yourself "Stevo how can that be?". It's because whenever I add gas to that bike I also add 1oz of Sta-Bil per gallon because I know how much it sits in the corner. 25+ bikes down the road and not one buggered up carb or plugged pilot jet....yes it is that easy 

Sta-Bil use it in the off season, waaaaaay too many buggered up carb threads from this forum 

Quote from: rayshon on September 24, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
i know EXACTLY how you feel. after fixing a fuel leak this morning due to a fuel line, guess what?

I started it up and it choked at 4krpm just fine, then it got llower and lower and lower...stall.

started again, really rough and LOW idle on full choke, took off choke, stall stall stall

my next bike will NOT be carbed, i can tell you that lol

mine has 8k miles and it's giving me hell, whereas my manager's 1000rr has 20k+ miles and not a single major problem

as for your oil leak, make sure all the bolts are tight and the o-ring seal is good (mine busted after i put it on and ran it)

that statement is a mistake as all carbs do not clog and mis-step as often as the gs500's. looking back to my gs days, there were so many fueling related problems i'm surprised i still ride.

for whatever reason, my drz has better fueling, better startups, and been completely reliable (other than that wonderful stator) even after drowning it in creeks, sand, mud, you name it.


also, efi is not perfect. my fz6 is proof of that.


the gs has a great engine, great ergos, great reliability, and is a blast to ride. if only the fueling didn't suck i'd still own one. i'd happily give up the fz for a fuel injected gs500-efi. unfortunately, it will never happen.

2 cents, oh, and hello twinners, it's been a while.

Quote from: rayshon on September 24, 2011, 07:34:30 PM

Quote from: XLAR8 on September 24, 2011, 07:31:50 PM
ive had me bike for 1 year and ive never had a problem..... well there was the fact my battery didn't charge, but that was because my bike was knocked over on the right hand side and all the magic ran out the breather hose. once i poured some magic back in and gave it a little charge all was good.

i work on the principal if it aint broke dont fix it.... and not to assume i can if i cant (you know ass'u n"me).

how many miles? also do you clean your carbs at all? i know a guy with 30k miles on his GS and he never had to clean his carbs once..

ive done 13000k's and in that time ive had it serviced 3 times and the carbs have never been touched.

Quote from: gs500e on September 24, 2011, 10:40:10 AM
My primary goal for a next bike will be a carbueretor that can be removed without doing 42 other steps first, or fuel injection.
I would go buy either a new Triumph Bonnie (or a classic one) but i'm concerned it will just be another PITA like this thing. 

Are all bikes prone to constant tinkering???

not all bikes.. maybe just ones you buy that are 10 years old :-/

Quote from: XLAR8 on September 25, 2011, 08:28:23 AMive done 13000k's and in that time ive had it serviced 3 times and the carbs have never been touched.

Totally believable...If you ride your bike enough to keep the fuel fresh, that helps. I'm guessing the brand of gas might have some bearing on the situation also? Storing your bike indoors will definitely help allot in keeping the fuel in good shape.