Today i was going to take the bike to the auto parts store for some stabil, get some lunch, and stop by the bank.  And go for a random ride if all that went well....  I hadn't gotten the float levels spot on today, so i figured it would be a quick jaunt...

First i rode around the neighborhood.  It ran fairly well for the first two minutes, just a slight amount of stuttering, like it was a touch lean.  Then it began the bogging: lots of intake sound, no power, extremely unresponsive, no go juices; acting like it was rich.  Not even enough power to self right coming out of a turn in first gear.  I figure the float level adjusted itself again (or one of the needles got stuck shut again, and what felt rich was very lean perhaps).  I've got too much house stuff to do today; so i will wait until after the needles and seats arrive to mess with it further.  So not much riding today, never left the neighborhood... not enough power.  But was fun to be on the bike anyway, longest ride in a long time without it cutting out.

I did add Stabil to it today however, maybe that will help in the long run.  I figured i had 2-3 gallons of gas in the tank, so i put 3 ounces of Stabil in there.  Then took it for another ride in the neighborhood to get the stabil into the carbs, still bogged.

EVERYTHING about a used bike depends on the care it received from previous owners, and how good a mechanic worked on the bike.  Sounds like you got one that didn't get great care.  Sorry to be so blunt.

I have missed deals because I take a little extra time looking and asking questions.  Evaluating the bike and talking to the owner will usually let you know if the bike has had good care. 

Quote from: ohgood on September 25, 2011, 08:22:14 AM


that statement is a mistake as all carbs do not clog and mis-step as often as the gs500's. looking back to my gs days, there were so many fueling related problems i'm surprised i still ride.

for whatever reason, my drz has better fueling, better startups, and been completely reliable (other than that wonderful stator) even after drowning it in creeks, sand, mud, you name it.


also, efi is not perfect. my fz6 is proof of that.


the gs has a great engine, great ergos, great reliability, and is a blast to ride. if only the fueling didn't suck i'd still own one. i'd happily give up the fz for a fuel injected gs500-efi. unfortunately, it will never happen.

2 cents, oh, and hello twinners, it's been a while.

oh trust me i LOVE riding my gs..when it works ):< the fueling system is so simple yet (my particular bike) is so problematic...it's crazy.

also what kinds of problems has your fz6 been having?

Bought a Katana this weekend.. my GS500E (named PITA) just doesn't want to do anything but strand me anymore....

Hey GS 500e, good rant !

So many people seem to have problems with the gs, and then others, not so much,,, I dunno man, it's like fate or something - my bike is a '95 and I've only had the carbs off once in 5 yrs of ownership for a rejet, not even a 'cleaning' (there was crud in the float bowls, but I just left it there).

Oil leaks ?  Must be pretty bad to worry you so much - mine has dribbled oil since I bought it, a few drops here and there. Nice for conditioning the leather on my left boot, looks good, I like it so no worries there 'bout the oil.

GS twins.com wised me up about the fuel starvation/petcock problem, so I got rid of it before having the problem out on the highway - ran tygon fuel line straight from the tank - no intermdiate petcock, only a filter and a cutoff valve. 

Sounds like you're beyond your frustration limit - and may be creating a multitude of problems instead of fixing the original one.  Which I'd bet involves the ignition system somehow. You didn't mention anything 'bout that except to say you've got spark.

Well, the classic test for spark can be worse than useless - spark when I crank with plugs out and grounded on the cylinder head means all ok right?  No, not necessarily.  Doesn't tell you what the ignition can do under load at 6000 rpm ... or even just cranking against compression .

Although troubleshooting/diagnoses should be a logical progression, wrenching is more of a black art than a flow chart science - if you run into a brick wall of a problem, then you have to attack it from another direction ... bike won't run, hmmm maybe not the carbs after all, maybe not the fuel system .... maybe there's a bunny nest in the airbox. or not.

It's frustrating to read these accounts (there are so many) 'cuz I know I could have your bike runnning in a day or less, or know the real reason why not - the gs500 is a dog simple machine, there's not much really that can go wrong - carbs simple, fuel delivery also simple, Ignition, pretty simple.  Valves ? as long as they're not broken/melted or something the thing should run ...

Maybe you're overthinking it too much, too involved, fed up, whatever, but sounds like you need some distance probably to the extent of getting rid of that which you have come to hate (understandably).

On a side note, there are 2 kinds of Stabil.  If you live in a state that adds ethanol to the fuel you should be using the Stabil with the white label.

-Jessie


Stabil for ethanol blended fuels




Old school Stabil

The pepboys i went to today had sta-bil (which did say something on it about 'curing ethanol problems' or similar jargon).
The only other choice was to get marine sta-bil.... which i almost got (cuz i have a little boat).
(I basically got the bottom one in your picture; which says it is for ethanol fuels.  I think true old skool sta-bil (pre-ethanol) did not say 'improved formula' up top.)
If it is wrong i reckon i'll get the marine one soon.
I will say this: my fuel has been a fairly deep yellow.  I added the stabil to the bike, then i got carried away and put it everything that has fuel in it.  My 3 gallon gas can had yellow gas (some of it went into the gs).  After adding the stabil about an hour before, when pouring it into my lawn mower, i noticed it was much more clear/less yellow.  That may be my whole problem... bad gas all along (i have dumped the gas out of the gs tank at least twice in the past 3 months... but i always buy gas at the same gas station (A Sunoco) so maybe they have bad gas they're selling.  [i did always think gas was clearer/less yellow... but i hadn't paid attention to gas since the ethanol junk was added.]
Plus my tank petcock was gleaned over with fuel varnish (which is why it was replaced)... i can't imagine that same varnish wasn't everywhere else... (it's not gleaned over currently... or at least not as bad as the old one was, fuel flows out pretty quick).
Big thanks to BigBrother for the Ethanol... about as helpful as enriching gas with inert gases.... that wreak havoc.

(i have had some popping out of the right carb... which i reckon is a lean indicator so.... but then again, see all my previous posts)

I ordered 20 size pilot jets and 135 mains... so i will be using 20/60/135, instead of stock jetting soon.  (wiki recommended)
As mentioned earlier i have needles and seats already ordered... so i will be installing those.
I will be getting the valves set by the end of the week (work/weather permitting).

So... if i can't get it running right after that, well... i'll probably sell it cheap.

I'm tempted to ask rkjjeep to ride 620 miles instead of 300 for delivery.  I'd pay for a hotel and return flight; or he could ride my GS back for a few bucks off the purchase price of the 06' (i'd let him use my tools to get it running right, lol)
  I might buy it anyway... it looks good and price seems reasonable.

Bigfatcat:  I would agree about the ignition... except everything keeps leading me to fuel issues.  I have found the float needles stuck closed more than once.  My tank petcock was bad.  My frame petcock... i still think it was bad, but not so sure(could have been a lack of vacuum to open it, due to it running poorly).  Though i have stood back staring at the bike in complex dissatisfaction a few times and wondered about the blue smoke still being inside the ignition box and coils... lol.

I use the red Sta-Bil 

i add half a cup of methelated spirts every tank full.never had to clean carbs . rejeted it 9000 miles ago advanced timing 3 mm  set float at 14mm as per Factory Pro  instructions get 68 to 69 miles per gallon not going over 70 mph . 38 miles round trip every day.ride in rain and sunshine but bike is kept under cover at night.. Many problems are caused by petrol stations having water in tanks ,i always buy petrol from petrol stations with high volume turnover. i trust the tank filter to do its job..


Rod

I don't add anything and have never had to clean the carbs.

And now a thought... if your Standard gunks up all the time, why not switch to premium as meant for FI vehicles cause its additives are meant to keep injectors clean so obviously it would also keep carb jets clean too, wouldn't it? Then no more grief with always having to clean the carbs and jets and whatnot.

Michael

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 02:56:56 AM
I don't add anything and have never had to clean the carbs.

And now a thought... if your Standard gunks up all the time, why not switch to premium as meant for FI vehicles cause its additives are meant to keep injectors clean so obviously it would also keep carb jets clean too, wouldn't it? Then no more grief with always having to clean the carbs and jets and whatnot.

Michael

wait it takes regular? i've always been using premium (so has the previous owner)...that's what the owners manual that I downloaded said

Quote from: rayshon on September 26, 2011, 10:06:44 AM

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 02:56:56 AM
I don't add anything and have never had to clean the carbs.

And now a thought... if your Standard gunks up all the time, why not switch to premium as meant for FI vehicles cause its additives are meant to keep injectors clean so obviously it would also keep carb jets clean too, wouldn't it? Then no more grief with always having to clean the carbs and jets and whatnot.

Michael

wait it takes regular? i've always been using premium (so has the previous owner)...that's what the owners manual that I downloaded said

If it's an OEM owner's manual I doubt it says to use premium - and certainly does NOT say that if it's the one you downloaded from the wiki, cause I scanned it and uploaded the link.

In the USA 87 is what other countries call 91.

91 Research Method is Not the method used by the USA for Octane Rating - they use an average of the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON) and this is written as (R+M)/2 as seen in the owner's manual.

Michael

Mister, you get to ride year round, correct? I believe thats why you dont need to add anything to your gas. Here in Pennsylvania, the  (comfortable) riding season is only about 6 to 8 months. Thats a long time for gas to sit in carbs.

Worked some OT today, so didn't get much accomplished today on the bike (aside from waiting for new parts... ).
Checked float bowl level, both were high today.  Odd, as right was high and left was low yesterday.  (I think the new needles/seats are going to cure this thing 90%, knock on wood.)
Hopped on and went for a quick ride.  It was a bit improved -> odd as i did nothing since yesterday's ride.
Today it had a bit more power.  Low rpm's were bogging, mid rpms were stuttering, higher rpms were stuttering/sputtering.
My guess is rich on low end, lean everywhere else... or lean everywhere (more likely).
(I know the carb is supposed to be based on throttle position not rpm so....  1/8 throttle = boggy.  1/4 = boggy.  1/2 throttle = boggy then stuttering. 3/4 throttle = boggy then stuttering.  WOT = boggy then stuttering.  Idles fine.  Checked float level after ride, both still high.  Excessive 'intake' sound during all attempts to accelerate, but not as bad as yesterday.)  Right carb  popping for first minute or so of warm-up.

My only guesses for change in performance: A) it is about 20degF colder now than yesterdays ride.  B) Stabil is starting to clean stuff up.  C) float needles were wandering 'better' today. D) Dumb luck.  E) I had a long sucky day at work, so i was quite willing to twist the throttle a lot.  F) i actually washed the bike yesterday evening... maybe it was thanking me.

Hopefully i will get home in time to re-measure valves [and write it down this time] and order shims tomorrow (but i doubt it, i'm working two hours away tomorrow).

Well, that was the day's update.  It was fun being able to get above 30mph (even though it probably wasn't real good for the bike since it wasn't running right).

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 12:04:18 PM

Quote from: rayshon on September 26, 2011, 10:06:44 AM

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 02:56:56 AM
I don't add anything and have never had to clean the carbs.

And now a thought... if your Standard gunks up all the time, why not switch to premium as meant for FI vehicles cause its additives are meant to keep injectors clean so obviously it would also keep carb jets clean too, wouldn't it? Then no more grief with always having to clean the carbs and jets and whatnot.

Michael

wait it takes regular? i've always been using premium (so has the previous owner)...that's what the owners manual that I downloaded said

If it's an OEM owner's manual I doubt it says to use premium - and certainly does NOT say that if it's the one you downloaded from the wiki, cause I scanned it and uploaded the link.

In the USA 87 is what other countries call 91.

91 Research Method is Not the method used by the USA for Octane Rating - they use an average of the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON) and this is written as (R+M)/2 as seen in the owner's manual.

Michael

"91 or higher" and here we have only 87 for regular 89 and 93 which is premium..but that isn't talking about what the type of gas i should use? that's confusing ):

so what you're saying is I should use regular then huh?

I run 87 in mine. It get's a bit better mileage with it.

Quote from: rkjjeep on September 25, 2011, 01:53:23 PM
EVERYTHING about a used bike depends on the care it received from previous owners, and how good a mechanic worked on the bike.  Sounds like you got one that didn't get great care.

Exactly. I've had 6 bikes in 32 years of riding and my son's 05 GS500F is his third bike and it is far and away the worst pos I've ever had the displeasure to deal with. And I don't know if it was the previous owner or the original. Either way I'd like to punch someone.

Lots of rust in hard to see places.  Months of sorting out the various oil leaks. Endless carburetor issues. Turn signal issues. A blown rear shock. Indicator bulbs blowing all the time. Then finding out through this forum that the engine for the bike is from an 00, not the original. My 04 V-Strom with 50% more miles is in far better shape.

If him or I ever buy another used bike there will be a lot of research, checking, testing, investigation and questions. And if the seller doesn't like it I'm walking.

A 89-00 GS carb if set up right will need a light look over every other year. I think its floats will drift high making it rich. 3 years maybe ... just a U tube check and if its right, leave it be.

Jet them to non epa spec and set floats correct and find and fix all the O rings that are dry etc, put some sealant on the float gasket and the carbs will really work for ever, The GSXR's which used the same carbs wear needles and get those too rich, I however dont see it happening in gs'es really.

The 04+ carbs, same deal, except they dont have drifting floats, and have a lot fewer O rings that count. Float spigot may be the only one in those. An 01+ carb literally is jet it and forget it.

01-02 is close to the 04+ but there is an extra O ring in the top that is a concern for drying out.

These are for bikes with clean air filters, with valves in spec and used regularly. Dont park it for 2 years or run it without an air filter in a dusty environment or with a motor that spews carbon into the carb.

I've got seamax's carbs back after 3 years, they really needed a float adjust and a set of O rings, which 3 years ago I didn't have. He sprung a leak (I suggested he may need to go to a doctor but ... ) and the old O rings and drifting floats are the likely cuplrit.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: rayshon on September 26, 2011, 06:44:46 PM

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 12:04:18 PM

Quote from: rayshon on September 26, 2011, 10:06:44 AM

Quote from: mister on September 26, 2011, 02:56:56 AM
I don't add anything and have never had to clean the carbs.

And now a thought... if your Standard gunks up all the time, why not switch to premium as meant for FI vehicles cause its additives are meant to keep injectors clean so obviously it would also keep carb jets clean too, wouldn't it? Then no more grief with always having to clean the carbs and jets and whatnot.

Michael

wait it takes regular? i've always been using premium (so has the previous owner)...that's what the owners manual that I downloaded said

If it's an OEM owner's manual I doubt it says to use premium - and certainly does NOT say that if it's the one you downloaded from the wiki, cause I scanned it and uploaded the link.

In the USA 87 is what other countries call 91.

91 Research Method is Not the method used by the USA for Octane Rating - they use an average of the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON) and this is written as (R+M)/2 as seen in the owner's manual.

Michael

"91 or higher" and here we have only 87 for regular 89 and 93 which is premium..but that isn't talking about what the type of gas i should use? that's confusing ):

so what you're saying is I should use regular then huh?

"In the USA 87 is what other countries call 91.

91 Research Method is Not the method used by the USA for Octane Rating - they ( the USA and Canada) use an average of the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON) and this is written as (R+M)/2 as seen in the owner's manual."

See your clip.... 91 Research Method... The USA does NOT use that method. Now look below... see what is says for Canada, "your motorcycle requires unleaded gasoline with a Minimum pump octane rating of 87 ((R+M)/2))... that is the Minimum you should use.

My point is, the manual does NOT say to use premium.

Now that is clear... you can use whatever fuel you like - standard, premium, super-duper premium. It won't (shouldn't) make any difference to the performance of the bike because the compression of the GS is not high enough.

Octane is not an Energy Rating where higher octane means more oomph from the fuel. It is an anti-knock rating. The higher the engine's compression the more likelihood the gas will auto detonate due to the heat and pressure just like a diesel engine. To prevent this from happening so the gas only explodes when the spark fires, the higher octane fuels come into play. They resist the urge to auto-detonate. The engine in the GS500 does not have enough compression for auto-detonation to be a problem. So, in theory, you should get no benefit from running higher than standard gas in the motor. (Heck, even my 919 suggests standard as the Minimum)

However, that's in theory. You have to go by your own real world results. If you try standard and get X mileage and premium gives you better, then you can now make a decision on which fuel you will use from then on. My own results show a brand bias - I get better mileage on BP and Caltex than Shell - both bikes and car show the same results. Bikes perform the same on BP standard or premium, car does marginally better on premium.

Having said that, yes, we do ride year around. So I can appreciate that we don't have fuel sitting in carbs for great lengths of time, but this problem in the US seems to extend to those places where riding is year around. So I do wonder if there is a slight change in gas standards between the two places and your gas has slightly different additives in it that make gumming more likey?

Michael

Great info there.^ Answer's quite a few of my questions. And yes, I've heard several times that they sell different blends of gas in different area's here.