Okay: I have some good news for everyone. I actually botched the last chart, and accidentally put in the wrong 4th gear ratio. The GS gearing is actually pretty sane from the factory, and fairly easy to deal with. Below is an updated chart, using the stock 130/70/17 rear tire.

I just ran the numbers using the Sport Rider spreadsheet, using the dyno chart posted above for a stock GS500, stock gearing, 130/70/17 rear tire.

Because of the GS500's very midrange heavy power-curve, the bike really doesn't benefit from being run at red-line, even in 1st gear.

1st > 2nd - Ideal shift is at 10.5K RPM
2nd > 6th - Ideal shift is at 10K RPM.



This more or less mirrors my experience racing the GS - in stock form, it *really* doesn't benefit from being revved to the moon.

With a 140/70/17, the ideal shift points are pretty similar, and there isn't as much benefit in revving out 1st gear.
1st > 2nd - 10.25K RPM
2nd > 6th - 10K RPM

With a 150/70/17, the ideal shift points compress further, and 10K is pretty much ideal in every gear. It's worth noting that if you plan to run a 150 profile rear tire, it's probably worth using a larger rear sprocket to increase your gearing ratio to compensate.

Here's a shift chart for a bike running a 1 tooth smaller front sprocket, and 2 tooth larger rear. While cruising RPMs suffer a lot (you'll be at 6.5K RPM at 65MPH in 6th,) it does provide a nice power curve for acceleration.



Ideal shift points are approximately:
1st > 2nd - 10.25K RPM
2nd > 6th - 10K RPM

RPM limited max speed in this configuration is about 125, which is about the best you could ever hope for from basic mods to the GS.

Note that for street riding, you really don't need to use these shift points. Even with stock gearing, the GS500 will happily pull from as low as 3000RPM. There's no reason to wear out your bottom end spinning up to 10K rpm for a relatively sedate riding.

Thanks for redoing!

Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

Quote from: burning1 on September 29, 2011, 06:28:20 PM
Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

This is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

Also this seems to prove out what I have read for racing ...choose the lowest gear which will just about hit redline at the end of the longest straightaway...any higher gear would be a waste for racing...

For recreational riding....I don't see any of this much mattering!

Cookie

BTW: it still makes it look like there is a "wasted gear", power wise This time, it's 5th gear.

But from an economy point of view (keeping the engine around 4-5k rpm, at street legal speeds), or perhaps simply for an rpm stepping stone transition to 6th, it is certainly useful


I find it also interesting to note, that 5th, on "stock", is almost identical to your 6th, on a re-sprocket.

So if someone were to just pretend they have a 5-speed trans, plus "overdrive" gear, they're almost at the same thing without changing anything

Other than the initial 1st gear torque.. really, there seems to be equivalent power available in both graphs; the main difference being that in the tweaked one, you would use a higher gear to get the power, whereas in stock, you merely hold the lower gear for longer?

The short version of this I think is to say; "Suzuki did a REALLY good job of gearing choices!"

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:49:56 PM

Quote from: burning1 on September 29, 2011, 06:28:20 PM
Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

This is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

Also this seems to prove out what I have read for racing ...choose the lowest gear which will just about hit redline at the end of the longest straightaway...any higher gear would be a waste for racing...

For recreational riding....I don't see any of this much mattering!

Cookie

I'm quite the opposite. This very well is important to the way I ride day-to-day.


When I ride I tend to keep my bike as close to the middle of the power band as I can for the gear I'm in. You don't need to be greased lightning on two wheels do it either. Reason being is that you're much safer in your power band operating your engine at it's peak performance point so that if something does come up you can motor through it fairly easy. For example, being stuck on the highway with a car merging your way given the choice to brake or speed up (you're in the middle of his car) which do you choose? I'd choose speed up and begin a small swerve. The engine, operating within the power band, will respond much quicker to you dumping the throttle than if it had to speed up to the power band.

Of course this doesn't do much for you when you ride through an intersection (you should be covering your brake and starting to inch your speed down ALWAYS if there is a left-turner or right-turner), but it's good to keep in mind if you're on a long stretch of land where the most optimal situation will be to use your throttle vs. use your brake.

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:49:56 PMThis is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

My thoughts exactly.

I was actually playing with a couple of superimposed graphs earlier today at the end of work. I basically made each graph a single color, layered one over the other and made it slightly transparent using GIMP. Short version is that through 1st and the early part of 2nd, the lower gearing has an advantage. The taller gearing has a bit of an advantage at the end of 2nd, where the shorter gearing is forced to shift to 3rd. After that, it pretty much goes back and forth, till the low gearing falls flat on it's face at 120 miles per hour, and the taller gearing has a little oomph.

Leads me to believe that slightly more moderate gearing, such as -0/+3 might be a better choice for our bikes.

I may repeat the comparison using a sportbike dyno chart for anyone interested in how things match up with a peakier engine. I was hoping to find a good dyno of a GS with Megacycle cams and a few other race mods for comparison, but didn't have a lot of luck. Guess I'll have to wait till I build and dyno my race engine...

I probably won't be able to post up the comparison image until Monday, but I will certainly share them when I have em. If there's a good way to share XLS spreadsheets through this forum, I'd be happy to send out the tool I used to make these charts, so that other people can play around.

sharing spreadsheets is what google docs is for, these days

Quote from: Phil B on September 29, 2011, 08:53:44 PM
BTW: it still makes it look like there is a "wasted gear", power wise This time, it's 5th gear.

But from an economy point of view (keeping the engine around 4-5k rpm, at street legal speeds), or perhaps simply for an rpm stepping stone transition to 6th, it is certainly useful


I find it also interesting to note, that 5th, on "stock", is almost identical to your 6th, on a re-sprocket.

So if someone were to just pretend they have a 5-speed trans, plus "overdrive" gear, they're almost at the same thing without changing anything

Other than the initial 1st gear torque.. really, there seems to be equivalent power available in both graphs; the main difference being that in the tweaked one, you would use a higher gear to get the power, whereas in stock, you merely hold the lower gear for longer?

The short version of this I think is to say; "Suzuki did a REALLY good job of gearing choices!"

Phil B,

You and I have come to the same conclusion!  (the only  benefit to lower gear ratios is first gear.......the middle  gears don't matter.......In the higher gears (6th) you can always simply down shift..........it's nice to have a fairly high 6th as "overdrive" for cruising at lower RPM when aceleration is not needed)

This is where I thought this would all lead............

Once you superimpose the graphs for different ratios....you see that IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME GRAPH......just that the  graph is extended a little on the low side.....or extended a little at the high side when you change ratios...

Yes the position of each gear moves around on the graph...(shift points)   but the graph is really simple to understand.....

The graph shows the three parameters of HP....force, distance, time.....it is simply the equation

x times y = Horsepower.....

Ok the actual graph might vary and waver  tiny bit here and there from this theoretical equation..but if you "smooth out the curve...you always get .....x times y = HP

Cookie

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on September 29, 2011, 09:43:05 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:49:56 PM

Quote from: burning1 on September 29, 2011, 06:28:20 PM
Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

This is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

Also this seems to prove out what I have read for racing ...choose the lowest gear which will just about hit redline at the end of the longest straightaway...any higher gear would be a waste for racing...

For recreational riding....I don't see any of this much mattering!

Cookie

I'm quite the opposite. This very well is important to the way I ride day-to-day.


When I ride I tend to keep my bike as close to the middle of the power band as I can for the gear I'm in. You don't need to be greased lightning on two wheels do it either. Reason being is that you're much safer in your power band operating your engine at it's peak performance point so that if something does come up you can motor through it fairly easy. For example, being stuck on the highway with a car merging your way given the choice to brake or speed up (you're in the middle of his car) which do you choose? I'd choose speed up and begin a small swerve. The engine, operating within the power band, will respond much quicker to you dumping the throttle than if it had to speed up to the power band.

Of course this doesn't do much for you when you ride through an intersection (you should be covering your brake and starting to inch your speed down ALWAYS if there is a left-turner or right-turner), but it's good to keep in mind if you're on a long stretch of land where the most optimal situation will be to use your throttle vs. use your brake.

Although I do understand your concept and agree to a point....it doesn't seem practical to me in the real world of recreational riding...

What RPM range do you consider the "power band"??

Sooo............what RPM shift points do you use?   Do you ever get into 6th gear?  Ever heard of downshifting when accelaration is needed?

Cookie

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:01:27 AM

If we were to look at the shift points I use in recreational riding...or (worse) the upshifts recommended in the manual..

1 to 2 @ 12 MPH
2 to 3 @ 19 MPH
3 to 4 @ 25 MPH
4 to 5 @ 31 MPH
5 to 6 @ 37 MPH


I think for recreational riding you can pretty much pick (almost) any gear at any time!

1st goes from 0 to 48
2nd goes from 12 to 67
3rd goes from  19 to 86
4th goes from  25 to 95
5th goes from 31 to 125 (theoretical)
6th goes from  37 to 141 (theoretical or down hill, down wind)


I would say that most of us ride somewhere in between the "granny shifts" shown in the owners manual, and the "all out race shifts" shown in the torque curve shift point chart.  For recreational riders,  don't think the actual gear ratios, nor the actual shift points make a bit of difference. (The most I'm ever gonna do is downshift and rev up to like 8500 to pass somebody, or get out of somebody's way...........Or just once in a while for fun.......

Cookie

I don't recall such gear shift point recommendations in the OEM Owner's Manual that comes with the bike. What page is this on?

My shifts are normally in the 5k - 6k range. Say 5.5k for average. I'll cruise around in 4th at 37mph (60kph), 5th at 50mph (80kph) and will not take 6th below 56mph (90kph) cause it starts feeling sluggish around the 50mph (80kph) mark. At these speeds the bike is in the 4k to 5k range for cruising. Isn't lugging and still has some get up and go.

As the bike can be doing 87mph (140kph) in 4th gear at 9k rpm, I find it an ideal gear to use to merge onto a highway. I can leave it in 4th for around town riding and then just twist the throttle while I am on the on-ramp and only change gears once on the highway. 

Michael

Quote from: twocool on October 01, 2011, 04:22:05 AM

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on September 29, 2011, 09:43:05 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:49:56 PM

Quote from: burning1 on September 29, 2011, 06:28:20 PM
Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

This is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

Also this seems to prove out what I have read for racing ...choose the lowest gear which will just about hit redline at the end of the longest straightaway...any higher gear would be a waste for racing...

For recreational riding....I don't see any of this much mattering!

Cookie

I'm quite the opposite. This very well is important to the way I ride day-to-day.


When I ride I tend to keep my bike as close to the middle of the power band as I can for the gear I'm in. You don't need to be greased lightning on two wheels do it either. Reason being is that you're much safer in your power band operating your engine at it's peak performance point so that if something does come up you can motor through it fairly easy. For example, being stuck on the highway with a car merging your way given the choice to brake or speed up (you're in the middle of his car) which do you choose? I'd choose speed up and begin a small swerve. The engine, operating within the power band, will respond much quicker to you dumping the throttle than if it had to speed up to the power band.

Of course this doesn't do much for you when you ride through an intersection (you should be covering your brake and starting to inch your speed down ALWAYS if there is a left-turner or right-turner), but it's good to keep in mind if you're on a long stretch of land where the most optimal situation will be to use your throttle vs. use your brake.

Although I do understand your concept and agree to a point....it doesn't seem practical to me in the real world of recreational riding...

What RPM range do you consider the "power band"??

Sooo............what RPM shift points do you use?   Do you ever get into 6th gear?  Ever heard of downshifting when accelaration is needed?

Cookie

The power band is toward the end of the range. Without seeing a dyno chart I would typically keep my bike between 6k and 8k.

I adjust my shift pattern based on the place I'm riding. If I'm in traffic, I tend to ride my gears out more. A typical "in-traffic" scenario would be:

from red light -

1st - 2nd -> 8.5k - 9k
2nd - 3rd -> 8k

I never usually have to leave third on any road under 65 MPH. These RPMs are subject to change as well, I adjust the "aggressiveness" of my shifting based on traffic. I guess you could say I keep my bike in a gear lower than it could be until it gets annoying to ride in that gear.


Highways here are pretty safe, but notoriously hard to get on to because people tend to speed up to block people from getting in their way vs. keeping their same speed to facilitate merging. As such, I tend to follow a more aggressive pattern from the "HOV light" that lets one car on at a time.

From red -

1st - 2nd -> 9k
2nd - 3rd -> 8.5k
3rd - 4th -> 8k
4th - 5th -> 8k


I almost never reach 6th gear. To me, 6th gear is my cruising gear that I click into on an open freeway.


As for downshifting when danger shows up. I can't really say that's a bad idea, but at least for me downshifting is one more step I have to do before my bike is useful - and sometimes you don't have the time to do it.



This isn't of course to say I don't cruise. I shift WAY earlier on roads that are less populated/less dangerous/completely empty. But if I have to put with 6.5-7k engine vibrations riding down a very busy road so that I can maintain my safety I will be more than happy to do it.



I'm open to suggestions though.

Quote from: mister on October 01, 2011, 01:05:02 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:01:27 AM

If we were to look at the shift points I use in recreational riding...or (worse) the upshifts recommended in the manual..

1 to 2 @ 12 MPH
2 to 3 @ 19 MPH
3 to 4 @ 25 MPH
4 to 5 @ 31 MPH
5 to 6 @ 37 MPH


I think for recreational riding you can pretty much pick (almost) any gear at any time!

1st goes from 0 to 48
2nd goes from 12 to 67
3rd goes from  19 to 86
4th goes from  25 to 95
5th goes from 31 to 125 (theoretical)
6th goes from  37 to 141 (theoretical or down hill, down wind)


I would say that most of us ride somewhere in between the "granny shifts" shown in the owners manual, and the "all out race shifts" shown in the torque curve shift point chart.  For recreational riders,  don't think the actual gear ratios, nor the actual shift points make a bit of difference. (The most I'm ever gonna do is downshift and rev up to like 8500 to pass somebody, or get out of somebody's way...........Or just once in a while for fun.......

Cookie

I don't recall such gear shift point recommendations in the OEM Owner's Manual that comes with the bike. What page is this on?

My shifts are normally in the 5k - 6k range. Say 5.5k for average. I'll cruise around in 4th at 37mph (60kph), 5th at 50mph (80kph) and will not take 6th below 56mph (90kph) cause it starts feeling sluggish around the 50mph (80kph) mark. At these speeds the bike is in the 4k to 5k range for cruising. Isn't lugging and still has some get up and go.

As the bike can be doing 87mph (140kph) in 4th gear at 9k rpm, I find it an ideal gear to use to merge onto a highway. I can leave it in 4th for around town riding and then just twist the throttle while I am on the on-ramp and only change gears once on the highway. 

Michael

Chart on Page 5-4...of july 2008 manual (for 2009 model)  Section   "using the Transmission"..Upshifting schedule.....

The downshifting schedule is even worse!  4th to 3rd at 12 mph  !!!

I've seen some weird shifting schedules like this for some of the cars I've owned......way too low RPM for any reasonable driving....my girlfriend even had a car with an "upshift Light"...  that damn thing was "on" all the time I drove that car!

Your shift points seem to agree with what I normally do too........Downshifting...or staying in a lower gear is always available when quick pick up is needed(7000 or higher).....then higher gear for continuous cruising (like 4500 to 5500)

Again the shift point chart which "Burning" has developed really represents Wide open Throttle and an example of extracting the maximum (average) horsepower throughout the gear changes...

Although this might have an application in recreational riding (merging from a dead stop to 85 MPH traffic comes to mind)...I certainly never had the reason to drive like this....only occasional "wind up" in a particular gear..or down shift to get the rpm up for short burst)

I can't see running up above 8500 to 10,000 all the time...

Cookie

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on October 01, 2011, 01:20:03 PM

Quote from: twocool on October 01, 2011, 04:22:05 AM

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on September 29, 2011, 09:43:05 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:49:56 PM

Quote from: burning1 on September 29, 2011, 06:28:20 PM
Actually, I noticed something very interesting when comparing the two charts... Going -1+2 gives you a nice boost of acceleration at low gears, but... Compare the speed to power between the two charts, and you'll notice that in higher gears, you actually make a little less power. Would be interesting to overlay the two charts to see the results...

This is where I was hoping you would take this!  the overlay of the two charts......

Basically we could also combine all 6 curves and just use the right side of each (except use all of 1st gear...and make one smooth acceleration curve......(forget about shift points..just compare what happens with different sprockets...)

Also this seems to prove out what I have read for racing ...choose the lowest gear which will just about hit redline at the end of the longest straightaway...any higher gear would be a waste for racing...

For recreational riding....I don't see any of this much mattering!

Cookie

I'm quite the opposite. This very well is important to the way I ride day-to-day.


When I ride I tend to keep my bike as close to the middle of the power band as I can for the gear I'm in. You don't need to be greased lightning on two wheels do it either. Reason being is that you're much safer in your power band operating your engine at it's peak performance point so that if something does come up you can motor through it fairly easy. For example, being stuck on the highway with a car merging your way given the choice to brake or speed up (you're in the middle of his car) which do you choose? I'd choose speed up and begin a small swerve. The engine, operating within the power band, will respond much quicker to you dumping the throttle than if it had to speed up to the power band.

Of course this doesn't do much for you when you ride through an intersection (you should be covering your brake and starting to inch your speed down ALWAYS if there is a left-turner or right-turner), but it's good to keep in mind if you're on a long stretch of land where the most optimal situation will be to use your throttle vs. use your brake.

Although I do understand your concept and agree to a point....it doesn't seem practical to me in the real world of recreational riding...

What RPM range do you consider the "power band"??

Sooo............what RPM shift points do you use?   Do you ever get into 6th gear?  Ever heard of downshifting when accelaration is needed?

Cookie

The power band is toward the end of the range. Without seeing a dyno chart I would typically keep my bike between 6k and 8k.

I adjust my shift pattern based on the place I'm riding. If I'm in traffic, I tend to ride my gears out more. A typical "in-traffic" scenario would be:

from red light -

1st - 2nd -> 8.5k - 9k
2nd - 3rd -> 8k

I never usually have to leave third on any road under 65 MPH. These RPMs are subject to change as well, I adjust the "aggressiveness" of my shifting based on traffic. I guess you could say I keep my bike in a gear lower than it could be until it gets annoying to ride in that gear.


Highways here are pretty safe, but notoriously hard to get on to because people tend to speed up to block people from getting in their way vs. keeping their same speed to facilitate merging. As such, I tend to follow a more aggressive pattern from the "HOV light" that lets one car on at a time.

From red -

1st - 2nd -> 9k
2nd - 3rd -> 8.5k
3rd - 4th -> 8k
4th - 5th -> 8k


I almost never reach 6th gear. To me, 6th gear is my cruising gear that I click into on an open freeway.


As for downshifting when danger shows up. I can't really say that's a bad idea, but at least for me downshifting is one more step I have to do before my bike is useful - and sometimes you don't have the time to do it.



This isn't of course to say I don't cruise. I shift WAY earlier on roads that are less populated/less dangerous/completely empty. But if I have to put with 6.5-7k engine vibrations riding down a very busy road so that I can maintain my safety I will be more than happy to do it.



I'm open to suggestions though.

I would say that you are more "aggressive" than most..your shifts are at fairly high RPM.....

From the type of riding you describe..it makes perfect sense to me...

But the shift point chart show shifts at even HIGHER RPM!!!!  (I think "burning" has come up with shifts in the 10K range for the lower gears...) 

It look to me as if you are operating up in the power band...but  probably the lower end of it..  But then again...it seems the GS500 has a fairly flat and broad power band...so not a tremendous difference "where" in the  power band...

My riding is a lot different...usually long stretches of uncongested roads......often many miles without even seeing any other vehicles..I'm "out of town" in less than one mile...sometimes cruise in 5th if there's lots of tight turns and hills....otherwise cruise in 6th at pretty low rpm (50 to 60 MPH)

The beauty is that the GS500 can do either style!

Cookie



Cookie

I don't have a copy of the manual going, but I have seen similar shift points for other vehicles. I don't think they are actually recommending those shift points, just listing them as the absolute minimum speed that it's safe to shift into the next gear. For absolute maximum fuel efficiency with very mellow throttle application, those shift points will likely maximize fuel efficiency.

I'd be very surprised if the manual actually suggests those as nominal shift points for typical city riding.

Quote from: twocool on October 01, 2011, 04:10:36 AMPhil B,

You and I have come to the same conclusion!  (the only  benefit to lower gear ratios is first gear.......the middle  gears don't matter.......In the higher gears (6th) you can always simply down shift..........it's nice to have a fairly high 6th as "overdrive" for cruising at lower RPM when aceleration is not needed)

This is where I thought this would all lead............

Once you superimpose the graphs for different ratios....you see that IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME GRAPH......just that the  graph is extended a little on the low side.....or extended a little at the high side when you change ratios...

Yes the position of each gear moves around on the graph...(shift points)   but the graph is really simple to understand.....

Was thinking about this on the way home, and realized how much sense it actually made. If I was to plot a chart of an ideal transmission (CVT) I'm sure we'd find that it created a curve that basically connected the peaks of every possible gearing chart we could produce.

Started thinking about ways I could make the spreadsheet I'm using sit up and bark... I could probably produce a version that would chart out 2 sets of gearing, based on a single set of inputs. User throws in his torque @ RPM numbers, gearing (new&old) tire size (new&old) and chart produces a graph comparing the two, esp against a CVT.

With a tiny bit of work, it should be possible to calculate the 'usable speed' for each set of gears, which could help guys like me who race. Could probably even chart a 'threshold of wheelies' based on the length of the bike and CoG, to show how useless extra low 1st speed gearing is on a sport bike.

Quote from: twocool on October 01, 2011, 03:04:06 PM

Quote from: mister on October 01, 2011, 01:05:02 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:01:27 AM

If we were to look at the shift points I use in recreational riding...or (worse) the upshifts recommended in the manual..

1 to 2 @ 12 MPH
2 to 3 @ 19 MPH
3 to 4 @ 25 MPH
4 to 5 @ 31 MPH
5 to 6 @ 37 MPH


I think for recreational riding you can pretty much pick (almost) any gear at any time!

1st goes from 0 to 48
2nd goes from 12 to 67
3rd goes from  19 to 86
4th goes from  25 to 95
5th goes from 31 to 125 (theoretical)
6th goes from  37 to 141 (theoretical or down hill, down wind)


I would say that most of us ride somewhere in between the "granny shifts" shown in the owners manual, and the "all out race shifts" shown in the torque curve shift point chart.  For recreational riders,  don't think the actual gear ratios, nor the actual shift points make a bit of difference. (The most I'm ever gonna do is downshift and rev up to like 8500 to pass somebody, or get out of somebody's way...........Or just once in a while for fun.......

Cookie

I don't recall such gear shift point recommendations in the OEM Owner's Manual that comes with the bike. What page is this on?

My shifts are normally in the 5k - 6k range. Say 5.5k for average. I'll cruise around in 4th at 37mph (60kph), 5th at 50mph (80kph) and will not take 6th below 56mph (90kph) cause it starts feeling sluggish around the 50mph (80kph) mark. At these speeds the bike is in the 4k to 5k range for cruising. Isn't lugging and still has some get up and go.

As the bike can be doing 87mph (140kph) in 4th gear at 9k rpm, I find it an ideal gear to use to merge onto a highway. I can leave it in 4th for around town riding and then just twist the throttle while I am on the on-ramp and only change gears once on the highway. 

Michael

Chart on Page 5-4...of july 2008 manual (for 2009 model)  Section   "using the Transmission"..Upshifting schedule.....

Cookie

Interesting, cause my July 2008 manual for my 2009 bike shows no chart in page 5-4. This is the manual I uploaded to the wiki if you want to see it for yourself. The 2nd column on that page only has a Caution at the top and nothing else. Still called Using The Transmission. Hmmm.

Michael

Quote from: mister on October 02, 2011, 02:57:03 AM

Quote from: twocool on October 01, 2011, 03:04:06 PM

Quote from: mister on October 01, 2011, 01:05:02 PM

Quote from: twocool on September 29, 2011, 07:01:27 AM

If we were to look at the shift points I use in recreational riding...or (worse) the upshifts recommended in the manual..

1 to 2 @ 12 MPH
2 to 3 @ 19 MPH
3 to 4 @ 25 MPH
4 to 5 @ 31 MPH
5 to 6 @ 37 MPH


I think for recreational riding you can pretty much pick (almost) any gear at any time!

1st goes from 0 to 48
2nd goes from 12 to 67
3rd goes from  19 to 86
4th goes from  25 to 95
5th goes from 31 to 125 (theoretical)
6th goes from  37 to 141 (theoretical or down hill, down wind)


I would say that most of us ride somewhere in between the "granny shifts" shown in the owners manual, and the "all out race shifts" shown in the torque curve shift point chart.  For recreational riders,  don't think the actual gear ratios, nor the actual shift points make a bit of difference. (The most I'm ever gonna do is downshift and rev up to like 8500 to pass somebody, or get out of somebody's way...........Or just once in a while for fun.......

Cookie

I don't recall such gear shift point recommendations in the OEM Owner's Manual that comes with the bike. What page is this on?

My shifts are normally in the 5k - 6k range. Say 5.5k for average. I'll cruise around in 4th at 37mph (60kph), 5th at 50mph (80kph) and will not take 6th below 56mph (90kph) cause it starts feeling sluggish around the 50mph (80kph) mark. At these speeds the bike is in the 4k to 5k range for cruising. Isn't lugging and still has some get up and go.

As the bike can be doing 87mph (140kph) in 4th gear at 9k rpm, I find it an ideal gear to use to merge onto a highway. I can leave it in 4th for around town riding and then just twist the throttle while I am on the on-ramp and only change gears once on the highway. 

Michael

Chart on Page 5-4...of july 2008 manual (for 2009 model)  Section   "using the Transmission"..Upshifting schedule.....

Cookie

Interesting, cause my July 2008 manual for my 2009 bike shows no chart in page 5-4. This is the manual I uploaded to the wiki if you want to see it for yourself. The 2nd column on that page only has a Caution at the top and nothing else. Still called Using The Transmission. Hmmm.

Michael

I have the original copy which came withthe bike and also a downlaoded copy from Part Shark...both are the same on page 5-4......two charts..."upshifting schedule, and down shifting schedule.

It also says in the paragraph above.."The table below shows the approximate speed range for each gear"....

Are you in another country than USA  ??

I'm betting they had to put in this stupid shift range chart so as to meet some silly EPA standard for fuel economy or  pollution in the USA..........

Cookie

Quote from: burning1 on October 01, 2011, 07:55:56 PM
I don't have a copy of the manual going, but I have seen similar shift points for other vehicles. I don't think they are actually recommending those shift points, just listing them as the absolute minimum speed that it's safe to shift into the next gear. For absolute maximum fuel efficiency with very mellow throttle application, those shift points will likely maximize fuel efficiency.

I'd be very surprised if the manual actually suggests those as nominal shift points for typical city riding.

Well is sure does look like they are "recommending" those shift points.....but I suspect that they put in those numbers to meet some EPA mileage or pollution standard....

Cookie