2001 GS 500, 23,500 miles

A few weeks ago I found both of the right side cam journal caps (marked B and D) cracked.  Since this is not a replaceable parts, i sourced a take off head from an 05 with less than 2,000 miles from E-bay for $123 shipped.  I also ordered an Athena full gasket set.  I got around to starting work on it today and found a few things:

Although it is tight, the head can be removed with a little wiggling while the motor is still in the frame.

to give yourself more room to work, pull the wiring harness from the inside of the right side frame rail and get it lifted up as high as you can to give more clearance for the front of the head. 

Do yourself a favor, remove the horn to give yourself more room to remove the front camchain guide.

Be careful of the rear camchain guide when removing the head, if you have to put the head back on to readjust, be sure to tuck the rear guide back into the head before setting it down so you dont break it.

dry off the camchain as best you can and circle the studs/rivets with a marker where they line up with the numbers on the cams to make timing setting SOOOOOOOO much easier upon reassembly.

I used a bungie cord on the bars to hold tension on the camchain while working on the bike, the crank never moved and it made reassembly/timing a cinch!

My Athena Full gasket set did NOT come with new o-rings for the valve cover, Although I found the right size in my Nitrile O-ring assrtment from Harbor fraud.....

Hopefully I will get a chance to finish it up tomorrow.....I thought these tips might help others that need to do this............Also, I think I am just gonna rig a cheap digital Tachometer from E-bay up since the new head does not have the mechanical tach....

Well, it looks like I must have disturbed the base gasket enough when replacing the head that I now have a serious oil leak at the base gasket, particularly at the forward-most part where the cylinder is stamped "487 cc"....FAK! I guess I have to pull it all apart and replace the base gasket too........dammit! Also, the camchain sounds noisier now than before at idle.........I was careful to put all the guides back in place and the camchain tensioner works as it should......maybe I am just hearing it since I have the tank off and trying to synch the carbs............I wanted to be back on the road today! 

I have done top ends on thumpers (single cylinders)......Is there any special trick to getting both pistons in the cylinders?  Also, should I replace the rings while I have the jug off?

wait! before you pull the engine apart again, make sure the cam chain tensioner is tight and has a gasket, if it works loose thats (the front of the block) exactly where you'll find the oil.


also, if you don't replace the copper seal things that look like washers they will leak, showing oil in the same place. At the very least you should resurface them, but they are cheap, so replace them.

Quote from: Funderb on November 04, 2012, 02:15:45 PM
wait! before you pull the engine apart again, make sure the cam chain tensioner is tight and has a gasket, if it works loose thats (the front of the block) exactly where you'll find the oil.


also, if you don't replace the copper seal things that look like washers they will leak, showing oil in the same place. At the very least you should resurface them, but they are cheap, so replace them.

Camchain tensioner is at the back of the motor on mine and no sign of leakage there.......Are you talking about the washers that go on the four interior studs on the motor? I replaced them with new ones.

Yeah, you gotta replace the base gasket when you replace the head. As soon as you loosen all the studs for the head, you need a new base gasket and head gasket. You also should be replacing the copper washers and metal o-rings. For most of those parts you only get one chance to tighten it all up, so its best to replace everything all at once. At least thats what I did when I replaced the head and it worked out fine.

Quote from: Bluesmudge on November 04, 2012, 05:35:48 PM
Yeah, you gotta replace the base gasket when you replace the head. As soon as you loosen all the studs for the head, you need a new base gasket and head gasket. You also should be replacing the copper washers and metal o-rings. For most of those parts you only get one chance to tighten it all up, so its best to replace everything all at once. At least thats what I did when I replaced the head and it worked out fine.

Dammit, I am seeing that now.........I willpull it apart this weekend and replace the base gasket as well.  I don't see anyone mentioning that I should be replacing the piston rings.......any concerns?  I havent done a compression test, but the bike ran/runs fine and I dont think the compression is low.

i did the beer garage copper spray-a-gasket on my head and bas gasket. Bike is running strong and has definitely been put through its paces.

As advice - I did a bad thing one night.

In fixing Junior and replacing the head... I went to pull the head and pulled the jugs with it. Seems you should pry the head from the jugs a little. I wondered why I couldn't remove the head: it was stuck to the jugs.

What a time I had all by myself getting the pistons back in with no tools or help or experience doing it. I managed. Fortunately the gasket was rather new so was OK.

I did use new crush/o-ring thingies between the head and the jugs. Fortunately the head gasket helps keep them in place.

Also I re-torqued the head bolts after 100 miles. They really loosened up! maybe that's all you need to do? Just re-torque the head bolts/nuts? Worth a try before taking everything apart again.

Quote from: adidasguy on November 04, 2012, 10:19:10 PM
As advice - I did a bad thing one night.

In fixing Junior and replacing the head... I went to pull the head and pulled the jugs with it. Seems you should pry the head from the jugs a little. I wondered why I couldn't remove the head: it was stuck to the jugs.

What a time I had all by myself getting the pistons back in with no tools or help or experience doing it. I managed. Fortunately the gasket was rather new so was OK.

I did use new crush/o-ring thingies between the head and the jugs. Fortunately the head gasket helps keep them in place.

Also I re-torqued the head bolts after 100 miles. They really loosened up! maybe that's all you need to do? Just re-torque the head bolts/nuts? Worth a try before taking everything apart again.

Yeah,I had a helluva time geting the head seperated from the jug and I had lifted the jug probably an inch off of the crank case before I realized it.......I never pulled i up high enough to have the pistons come out though.  I would try the 100 mile ride and retighten the nuts, but its leaking way too much oil to ride it.  When I pull the valve cover this weekend, I will put the torque wrench on the nuts to see if they have backed off at all.   what a pain in the arse!

Not sure if it's true for all GS500's, but at least on mine two of the front studs that run through the jugs are exposed at the front of the engine -- allowing sand and dirt to pile up around the stud, so when you lift the jugs all the crud can fall into the engine or between the jugs, gasket, and block if you're not careful.. When I pulled my head I had a 'how the **** did this get in here?' moment. This could easily be the cause of your problem if applicable.

Someone please tell me they fixed this in the newer model years 

Also, I umm... *cough* reused *cough* the base and head gasket. This was after a careful once-over and resurfacing with #0000 steel wool, however. No leaks in 6k or so miles though. It can be done, but only if you're willing to risk having to tear the head off again to save a few bucks.

Putting the jugs back onto the pistons without special tools is best done with lots of patience and very slowly with very little force, lots of light from the bottom, and some form of little tool to push the piston rings in, although a gs500 is much easier to do than bikes where you have to get more than one in at once

Quote from: Badot on November 08, 2012, 03:14:10 PM
Not sure if it's true for all GS500's, but at least on mine two of the front studs that run through the jugs are exposed at the front of the engine -- allowing sand and dirt to pile up around the stud, so when you lift the jugs all the crud can fall into the engine or between the jugs, gasket, and block if you're not careful.. When I pulled my head I had a 'how the **** did this get in here?' moment. This could easily be the cause of your problem if applicable.

Two things I learned:

1. Wash the engine before disassembly. There is crud everywhere that can fall in.
2. Don't forget to remove that hidden bolt UNDER the front of the head.

Quote from: Badot on November 08, 2012, 03:14:10 PM
Not sure if it's true for all GS500's, but at least on mine two of the front studs that run through the jugs are exposed at the front of the engine -- allowing sand and dirt to pile up around the stud, so when you lift the jugs all the crud can fall into the engine or between the jugs, gasket, and block if you're not careful.. When I pulled my head I had a 'how the **** did this get in here?' moment. This could easily be the cause of your problem if applicable.

Someone please tell me they fixed this in the newer model years 

Also, I umm... *cough* reused *cough* the base and head gasket. This was after a careful once-over and resurfacing with #0000 steel wool, however. No leaks in 6k or so miles though. It can be done, but only if you're willing to risk having to tear the head off again to save a few bucks.

Putting the jugs back onto the pistons without special tools is best done with lots of patience and very slowly with very little force, lots of light from the bottom, and some form of little tool to push the piston rings in, although a gs500 is much easier to do than bikes where you have to get more than one in at once

Finally got around to it last weekend, it was exxactly as you described it.........I was like How the F$$$ did i get sand all the way down here??  After a thorough cleaning, and new gaskets, she is all buttoned up and running like a top after syncing the carbs.......two commutes to work (110 miles) and no oil leaks in sight (crossing fingers)

Adidasguy, I agree with washing the bike thouroughly before breaking it down, but there is not way to flush the crud out of the voids around the studs in the jug part of the motor, it just gets caked in there and it's impossible to get out until you pull the cylinder off......

Happy as a pig in sh$t to be back on the road with my commuter, although it was 30 degrees on my ride home this morning!!!!!

To be clear...when i replace my head in a few weeks, I need to pull off the head (obviously) and replace the metal gasket between the head and jugs, and I also need to pull off the jugs (meaning pistons come out too), and replace the metal gasket in between the jugs and the block? This seems like a project. I'm also terrified about dealing with the timing chain and getting that all squared away.

Graham

Quote from: gsatterw on November 22, 2012, 05:53:31 PM
To be clear...when i replace my head in a few weeks, I need to pull off the head (obviously) and replace the metal gasket between the head and jugs, and I also need to pull off the jugs (meaning pistons come out too), and replace the metal gasket in between the jugs and the block? This seems like a project. I'm also terrified about dealing with the timing chain and getting that all squared away.

Graham

Here is a tip for the timing, clean the chain off really good when you pull the valve cover and mark the studs on the chain wih a sharpie where they should be on the cams, just be sure the timing is right for checking valves when you mark them.  Hit me up for advice, it's not that hard.

I wouldn't rely on that method. I tried to mark my timing with a sharpie when I first pulled my cams and ended up putting it back together wrong and bending a valve.

Best to just read one of the manuals and do it the proper way. Then you can't mess up the timing. Sharpie method is okay if you double check it the normal way.

You ideally should deck the head for being true, and I would actually cut a 3 angle valve job too. In fact decking the head is a must on a GR, those are notorious for leaking @ the base gasket, the factory deck job was so chitty it does not torque down no matter what you do to make an even seal. I'd put a GS also in that same class, though the head is a lot better when new on a GS.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: Bluesmudge on November 04, 2012, 05:35:48 PM
Yeah, you gotta replace the base gasket when you replace the head. As soon as you loosen all the studs for the head, you need a new base gasket and head gasket. You also should be replacing the copper washers and metal o-rings. For most of those parts you only get one chance to tighten it all up, so its best to replace everything all at once. At least thats what I did when I replaced the head and it worked out fine.

Not if you make a jig and hold the cyls to the block. The suzuki motors are a lot better than kawi's for example which dont have the cyls mounted on studs but use bolts. In fact if you are replacing the base gasket, I'd remove the acorn nuts in the head, put regular nuts on those bolts, weld the nuts to the bolts and unbolt them and pull the bolt out of the case. That would let the head come off with out fighting with the studs and case etc.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: Bluesmudge on November 22, 2012, 10:52:21 PM
I wouldn't rely on that method. I tried to mark my timing with a sharpie when I first pulled my cams and ended up putting it back together wrong and bending a valve.

Best to just read one of the manuals and do it the proper way. Then you can't mess up the timing. Sharpie method is okay if you double check it the normal way.

For the record, I did use a service manual and double checked the timing before buttoning it all back up.  If you mark the timing chain with the sharpie, just be sure to keep tension on it as best you can while taking everything apart and keep an eye on the crank to make sure it did not move.....then when you put it back together, you just assemble the cams in the head based on the marks that were made on the chain, double check that the crank is in the proper position, count the timing chain studs (18 as I remember), and you are good to go.  One of the 1st things that I do when I get a "new to me" bike is pick up a service manual.....they are like Bible's in my garage.

BTW the cam caps are parts I have in the past welded and ground etc, however I was more welding to the side of them, to eliminate the side drift and clack clack. I really dont think I'd replace the whole head for the caps. You could have well replaced the cam caps with the same off a dead bike, checked for fit and sorta milled them a few thou, and put a moly-teflon coating on them and used it. In nascar country I can coant anything with moly teflon ... so its easy for me to speak.
Cool.
Buddha.

Buddha, I really would have done that to my cam caps, but I don't have a welder, grinder, or moly-teflon coating, and something tells me that the head I got is cheaper than all those things. I would have just replaced the caps with ones from another head, but people on this forum seemed really unsure about doing that. People said that it will work, but they won't be perfect and will ruin your engine down the line. I'm just gonna replace the head and sleep easy