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Making easily adjustable pilot screws.

Started by Krav, December 16, 2014, 02:16:24 AM

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Krav

Hello,

I want to replace my carbs (hence the title). I want to do this, since the way to access the pilot screw on the stock carbs sucks so badly.
Preferably i would want to have 2 carbs, one with the airscrew on the left side, and another one with the screw on the right.

Are there any kits available for this? or should i just yolo it with a custom build of 2 different carburettors?
"The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something" - Aristotle

"The leg of a baby is stronger than the balls of Muhammad Ali" - Imi Lichtenfeld

NYNJ8

Easiest way to do this would be to drill out the plug so that you can access the screw without taking anything apart.  Once the plug is removed you can access the screw at any time with a simple tool.  Are there other reasons why you want to replace the crab?  If not, then doesn't seem at all worth it.
2011 Ninja 250R
2007 SV650S
2011 TU250x
2003 XT225
2006 GS500

Krav

The carbs have been drilled, but the screw itself is only accesible from the underside of the carb. It's hard to reach with any tool i have to turn the screw, and i have no visual whatsoever of what im doing.

I like to have the screw on the side of the carb, like you see a lot on dirtbikes.

To some degree i gues if it plugs, it plays, but if there are specific recommendations of what carbs i should get, i would like to know sooner rather then later.
"The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something" - Aristotle

"The leg of a baby is stronger than the balls of Muhammad Ali" - Imi Lichtenfeld

Atesz792

Someone mentioned GSXR 36mm carbs earlier somewhere. IIRC they said it's even available in 'pairs' modded to fit the GS.
'04 GS500F with 50k miles updated July 2022.
Ride it like a 2 stroke:
1: Rev high
2: Add oil
3: Repeat

Big Rich

If you are looking for brand new carbs, look at Mikuni carbs. Aside from the BS carbs (CV carbs with butterfly valves) they make mechanical carbs too (the throttle cable physically lifts the slides). I have VM34'S on my GR650,  and they have the mixture screws on the sides.

I do have to warn you though: setting up non-stock carbs to any engine is going to be a LOT more work than reaching your current mixture screws.
83 GR650 (riding / rolling project)

It's opener there in the wide open air...

NYNJ8

Good point from Big Rich.  I'm not telling you which way to go here but I think reaching the mixture screw will be a walk in the park by the time you're done finding, replacing, then troubleshooting a new carb. 

Over the years I've seen people fashion really creative tools for reaching idle mixture screws.  When adjusting it I always close it fully, then increase the number of turns starting at zero. 

I know it is a pain but maybe before replacing, search around for creative ways to make it easier for you.  Not to mention, I don't how much you paid for the bike, but do you really want to drop $400 on a new setup?
2011 Ninja 250R
2007 SV650S
2011 TU250x
2003 XT225
2006 GS500

JAS6377

Why not grab some LongBoy screws from Factory Pro? Just dremel one side flat so you have a point of reference. Completely negates the need for a flat head bit.
Blue 2004F with some fun stuff
Lunchbox, 22.5/65/147.5, Jardine, 17/39, R6 throttle, R6 shock, .85 springs, GSXR1100 rearsets, Clubmans+Rox 2" risers, T-Rex sliders, flush mount fronts, integrated LED tail, integrated LED fronts, HID Projector, blue gauge LEDs, 12V outlet

And 96.5% more wub wub

Krav

#7
JAS6377, You da real MVP!
Thats a great idea. I didnt know those even existed. Hell, i should've thought of this myself. Thanks man!

What do you mean by dremeling one side flat?

Everyone else, thanks for helping me figuring things out. but especially for the price, im going to get myself some of those extended screws.
"The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something" - Aristotle

"The leg of a baby is stronger than the balls of Muhammad Ali" - Imi Lichtenfeld

Ron888

I too strongly recommend doing *anything* other than swapping carbs. Carbs from other bikes will be the least plug-and-play thing in the world!The rejetting will drive you nuts!!
Quote from: Krav on December 18, 2014, 01:29:20 AM
What do you mean by dremeling one side flat?
So you can easily see how many turns you are making.

I was going to suggest some form of braze-on extension for the screws.I didnt know the long accessory screws existed.They're a great idea



Krav

After doing research, those screws are going to be a bit of an issue.
First, i would need from 89-00 screws, which they dont make anymore. and if i would order them, i would need to order a batch.

What im going to do now, im going to have a VERY technical colleague drill a hole of 1,9mmin the screw, and press a 2,0mm pianostring in there. then have a 90 degrees bent at the end, and be able to turn the screw that way.

That piano string is supposed to be thusly stiff that it wil never bent in an elastic way, so i think this might work best, and to me is a free solution.
"The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something" - Aristotle

"The leg of a baby is stronger than the balls of Muhammad Ali" - Imi Lichtenfeld

NYNJ8

Should be a good mod.  Let us know how it goes others may be interested in doing something similar.  Luckily I haven't had to reset my screw more than once but I haven't had the bike long.  I may be facing the same frustration down the road.  Good luck
2011 Ninja 250R
2007 SV650S
2011 TU250x
2003 XT225
2006 GS500

Krav

Ill put it up on my project page, and here when done.

"The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something" - Aristotle

"The leg of a baby is stronger than the balls of Muhammad Ali" - Imi Lichtenfeld

Ron888

That's an interesting solution,it could be excellent!Looking forward to hearing how it goes

J_Walker

I thought of something similar. but soldering bicycle cable with the sleeves, onto the screw heads. using hard solder. my project page - when I get around to carbs, ill be trying this.
-Walker

Suzuki Stevo

Once the EPA Plug is gone (carbs have to be off for that anyway) you set the screws to 3 turns out and forget about them.

You are trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

One of those short tips for a muti tip screwdriver is all you need if you want to adjust the Idle Mixture with the carbs on the bike
I Ride: at a speed that allows me to ride again tomorrow AN400K7, 2016 TW200, Boulevard M50, 2018 Indian Scout, 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic

floatingLomas

Quote from: Krav on December 18, 2014, 05:36:39 AM
After doing research, those screws are going to be a bit of an issue.
First, i would need from 89-00 screws, which they dont make anymore. and if i would order them, i would need to order a batch.

Did they tell you how many constitutes a batch?
I know a little bit about a lot of things - usually just enough to be dangerous.

My 93 GS500E

dennisgb

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on December 19, 2014, 09:45:19 AM
Once the EPA Plug is gone (carbs have to be off for that anyway) you set the screws to 3 turns out and forget about them.

You are trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

One of those short tips for a muti tip screwdriver is all you need if you want to adjust the Idle Mixture with the carbs on the bike

That is not the correct way to adjust pilot screws. Each carb must be adjusted independently when the engine is hot (running). Screw is adjusted to get the highest idle speed on each carb and then proper idle RPM is adjusted by the idle mechanical stop screw. Fixed setting reference (3 turns) is for getting engine running after carb rebuild or cleaning. Those that cite fixed screw position on the web are wrong. Sorry.
2009 Suzuki GS500F
2007 Honda 919 Hornet
2004 Honda Shadow Aero Trike
1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
1975 Norton Commando 850 MKIII
1987 Honda Hurricane CBR600 RR Conversion
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Black Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 White Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Blue

dennisgb

On my ATV's and some of my motorcycles I have purchased "Big Head" fuel mixture screws or remote adjusters like the ones shown on this page:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/motorcycle/Adjustable%20Fuel%20Screw

There may be some for GS
2009 Suzuki GS500F
2007 Honda 919 Hornet
2004 Honda Shadow Aero Trike
1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
1975 Norton Commando 850 MKIII
1987 Honda Hurricane CBR600 RR Conversion
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Black Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 White Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Blue

Suzuki Stevo

#18
Quote from: dennisgb on December 19, 2014, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on December 19, 2014, 09:45:19 AM
Once the EPA Plug is gone (carbs have to be off for that anyway) you set the screws to 3 turns out and forget about them.

You are trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

One of those short tips for a muti tip screwdriver is all you need if you want to adjust the Idle Mixture with the carbs on the bike

That is not the correct way to adjust pilot screws. Each carb must be adjusted independently when the engine is hot (running). Screw is adjusted to get the highest idle speed on each carb and then proper idle RPM is adjusted by the idle mechanical stop screw. Fixed setting reference (3 turns) is for getting engine running after carb rebuild or cleaning. Those that cite fixed screw position on the web are wrong. Sorry.

I did that...ended up at 3 where I started, like everyone else here.

EDIT: But I use a manometer when syncing, not a drill bit  :thumb:
I Ride: at a speed that allows me to ride again tomorrow AN400K7, 2016 TW200, Boulevard M50, 2018 Indian Scout, 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic

dennisgb

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on December 19, 2014, 03:43:30 PM

I did that...ended up at 3 where I started, like everyone else here.


I just don't believe that Steve. Carbs are tuned for the location. They will perform different depending on altitude and a number of different conditions. I've rarely had a multi carb set-up where the carb fuel adjustment was the same between carbs let alone the same between bikes.

Add to that any mods on the bike and what you are saying is just not possible.

This is a bug of mine. This static setting recommendation is all over the web and it is just plain wrong. Other's on the web that don't understand take this information as correct...it's not.
2009 Suzuki GS500F
2007 Honda 919 Hornet
2004 Honda Shadow Aero Trike
1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
1975 Norton Commando 850 MKIII
1987 Honda Hurricane CBR600 RR Conversion
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Black Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 White Red
1988 Honda Hurricane CBR600 Blue

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