Hone that out?

You are joking...right?

By the time you get rid of those scratches you will be left with a cylinder that's about as true as the inside of a toilet roll!

Quote from: sledge on December 27, 2014, 09:31:24 AM
Hone that out?

You are joking...right?

By the time you get rid of those scratches you will be left with a cylinder that's about as true as the inside of a toilet roll!

I took it as..hone for the cross hatch marks that help the new rings seat and also retain oil and just leave the gouges.

Quote from: sledge on December 27, 2014, 09:31:24 AM
Hone that out?

You are joking...right?

By the time you get rid of those scratches you will be left with a cylinder that's about as true as the inside of a toilet roll!

I think you're taking the comment out of context. The OP said he can't find a donor engine anywhere near him. So what's the choice? I doubt he can clean that out completely with a hone, and I wouldn't do it myself...particularly all the way (eliminating scratches completely). Whether the honing would make it out of round is debatable, because you can't remove much material with a hone. Cylinder wear is probably more out than what a hone would do. That is because I wouldn't sit in there with a hone until those scratches were completely gone...but you tend to take every post literally so I will try and be "clearer" in the future. I can't guarantee that I might not say a word or two that you can pick apart, but I will try my best 

Dennis, last time I got GS5 rebored it cost me £125. That was for the M/C work inc  honing and two new (non OEM) +0.25mm pots and ring sets. That's less than 200 of your bucks. I cant believe its going to cost much more on your side of the pond.

Whats his choice??.......If he wants it doing PROPERLY......can I suggest he actually visits a reconditioning shop, maybe 2 or 3 of them and gets a quote from someone who is familiar with work of this nature and actually capable of doing it......then when he has the price then he can consider his options and make his choice 

Quote from: sledge on December 27, 2014, 11:28:55 AM
Dennis, last time I got GS5 rebored it cost me £125. That was for the M/C work inc  honing and two new (non OEM) +0.25mm pots and ring sets. That's less than 200 of your bucks. I cant believe its going to cost much more on your side of the pond.

Whats his choice??.......If he wants it doing PROPERLY......can I suggest he actually visits a reconditioning shop, maybe 2 or 3 of them and gets a quote from someone who is familiar with work of this nature and actually capable of doing it......then when he has the price then he can consider his options and make his choice 

I was getting quotes. but lots of the shops I tried to call earlier in the thread - well holiday season and all.

what is the best route for piston rings?

I wanna do it right - but at the same time, I don't wanna drop a decent hunk of cash for 2 cylinders...


edit: regarding fuel lines, other then pipe clamps being tighten down to much and breaking the little plastic connectors. are pipe clamps pretty safe over all to use? most of my hose clips have either fallen off and gotten lost, or aren't very tight any more. plus im replacing all the tubing, just because its cheap and my stuff is pretty dried out and crusty.. even for an 2005 0_o

It's a slippery slope on these bikes. Unless you love it to death, how much do you spend on it...because you know you'll never get it back. A donor engine would be the easiest and the cheapest IMO. But OP says he can't find any where he is. It also sounds like he doesn't have a ton of cash.

Boring (not sure you can even do that with a GS), rings and likely new pistons and a gasket set...you have $400+ if you do the mechanical work yourself. Then you have the head off and the valves don't look great...headwork and parts...another $200+ maybe $300...unless you go on the cheap and just lap the valves...

Honestly, I wouldn't go down this path at all with a GS...if I couldn't find an engine I'd part it out and look for another bike.

I look at that scoring and to me, toss it...but trying to give the OP a different path. Will it work...maybe...but he doesn't have a choice from what he's saying.

Quote from: dennisgb on December 27, 2014, 01:22:09 PM
It's a slippery slope on these bikes. Unless you love it to death, how much do you spend on it...because you know you'll never get it back. A donor engine would be the easiest and the cheapest IMO. But OP says he can't find any where he is. It also sounds like he doesn't have a ton of cash.

Boring (not sure you can even do that with a GS), rings and likely new pistons and a gasket set...you have $400+ if you do the mechanical work yourself. Then you have the head off and the valves don't look great...headwork and parts...another $200+ maybe $300...unless you go on the cheap and just lap the valves...

Honestly, I wouldn't go down this path at all with a GS...if I couldn't find an engine I'd part it out and look for another bike.

I look at that scoring and to me, toss it...but trying to give the OP a different path. Will it work...maybe...but he doesn't have a choice from what he's saying.

I already have a donor head, new valves, and all that jazz, I haven't put it all together yet.. and honestly, other then a cracked exhaust valve. and ruined valve seat. as far as that, the bike ran fine.. so i dunno yet. I'm just keeping an open mind.

I'm going to take a shot at this and be as honest as possible.

If you hone the existing cylinder (the one in your first picture), and do the rings, it's a crap shoot on what the results will be. Also, it might possibly deteriorate more in a short amount of time.

There are a lot of issues with the scoring in the cylinder that make it a bad choice.



The score marks that I outlined here are almost the length of the stroke. Proper honing will not clean these up, because although it is possible to hone bore a cylinder it isn't the recommended way to do it. If you do a normal cross hatch honing, the marks will still be there to some degree. The result is loss of compression and likely oil leaking by the rings and burning. Worst case is one of the ring gaps end up on a score mark and then it will for sure burn oil and lose compression.

The right way to do this is to have the cylinders bored to the next size and put oversized pistons and rings in.

I learned a long time ago that time is money...if you have it apart do it right.

If you hone and spend the money on new rings and gaskets...then spend the time to assemble it, and it turns out bad, you are out a lot more than if you do it right the first time...unless of course you just pitch it. If you go back and bore it then you lost the money and time from the first rebuild.

Take the cylinder to a reputable shop and ask them what they think. 

I don't think Dennis has actually been inside a GS5 yet but let me assure you from past experience they can be rebored by at least +0.25mm by some one who knows what they are doing as easily as any other bike!

Every time I have had a rebore and that includes not just GS5s the shop has supplied the oversize pots and rings as part of the job  Of course they don't say Suzuki on the box but non OEM are a lot cheaper, up to 50% less and its never been a problem 

Dennis says $400 plus.....hmmm!!.......... I am in the UK and it costs the equivalent of half that here 

Incidentally......go straight to the machine shop. Dealers and mechanics will quite happily take the job on but they will send them to the someone else and add their cut.

Quote from: sledge on December 27, 2014, 11:08:22 PM
I don't think Dennis has actually been inside a GS5 yet but let me assure you from past experience they can be rebored by at least +0.25mm by some one who knows what they are doing as easily as any other bike!

Every time I have had a rebore and that includes not just GS5s the shop has supplied the oversize pots and rings as part of the job  Of course they don't say Suzuki on the box but non OEM are a lot cheaper, up to 50% less and its never been a problem 

Dennis says $400 plus.....hmmm!!.......... I am in the UK and it costs the equivalent of half that here 

No I haven't been inside a GS, but I have been inside hundreds of other engines. Many Japanese engines have chrome or coated aluminum cylinders that can't be rebored...or at least shouldn't be. That's why I made that comment. I like how you point that out as if I have never been inside of an engine...I've been working on engines for 45 years...how long have you been involved? What is your background that makes you so much smarter than everyone else?

$400 + is with parts...not just the rebore. You can do it cheaper if you use aftermarket parts and find the cheapest shop...but I don't use aftermarket parts or bad shops...it isn't worth it in the end to save $100.

Dennis, Dennis Dennis.
Wind your neck in old son.
It don't matter how many engines you have been into in the past, we are talking about the GS5 and you (so far) haven't been into a single one.

While you are banging on about...maybe it cant be rebore??, maybe its coated??...let me, as someone who HAS been into a GS5 engine put you right....Its NOT plated or coated with chrome or nikasil or SCEM its good old cast iron and there is enough meat there to allow for at least one rebore....... at +0.25mm.

The O/P is on a budget, throwing random prices at him will do nothing except scare him and if you are going to give him "quotes" without doing the job yourself do him a favour and say if it includes OEM parts or not......You may want to go OEM every time but not everyone else does and we don't know how you work. Also remind him that Suzuki don't manufacture their own pistons but subcon them out to other companies, who sell the same thing direct to the public in a different box for far less than Suzuki do and that its possible he is getting the same thing without giving Suzuki and the dealer a cut.

I will point out though after all the waffling on you have done......you ultimately came to the same answer as me....."take it to a pro" so respect is due.....however it only took me 2 lines to make the point 

I will bow to you're superior talent and knowledge when you answer the question.

How long have you actually been working on anything mechanical?

I have 45 years and 40 as a mechanical engineer...you sound like a kid...with your senseless and continuous comebacks with little substance.

Trying to make yourself sound superior...it's pretty childish.

Hide behind your keyboard...seen it a hundred times before.

There is one on every forum on the web...you are at the top.

You have given the OP a lot of great information Sledge...ripping me and quoting Euro prices...I hope he's over there so you can "show" him who to take it to 

Dennis......I think you could be quite an interesting guy to talk with....IF.....it wasn't for your ego.

You say I try to sound superior?......I guess it must come naturally to you then 

Here is a tip.....why don't you forget about constantly banging on about your background, I doubt anyone is really interested and instead try to fit in with the rest of the forum rather than expecting the rest of the forum to fit in with you. Talk to people on their level rather than yours and you might find yourself getting on with people a bit better 

I am not one for talking about my job, background experience, qualifications etc......I simply don't feel I have anything to prove and I am nowhere near insecure enough to have to rely on that sort of thing to reinforce my comments and arguments, nor am I naïve enough to think I am the only person in here with more than a basic understanding of engineering principles and practice.

A few days ago you openly stated that some of the people in here were rude and offensive and that you were not going to bother with this forum anymore and leave yet,  here you are still.......that more than anything else tells me what sort of person you are Dennis   

Dennis

Here is an ad for a  typical UK rebore shop and the prices they charge....

http://www.kpmotosolutions.com/precisionreboring.htm

£48 to do a twin.......... about $75?

Going off your figures why does it cost significantly more over there??

Your moniker "Motorcycle God" tells it all.

An arrogant forum troll who doesn't even own a motorcycle that runs.

3500 posts and nary a picture of a bike you claim to be yours.

Maybe you should go out to your leaky shed and take the tarp off that rusty bucket of bolts and take a picture.

You also can't tell us the experience that makes you an expert for fear of being ripped a new one.

Being a "Word Smith" doesn't make you an expert. It just shows how small you really are.

Every post from you has been a personal attack...you think not...but it's obvious.

I bow to the mighty "Motorcycle God"   

Quote from: sledge on December 28, 2014, 03:46:10 PM
Dennis

Here is an ad for a  typical UK rebore shop and the prices they charge....

http://www.kpmotosolutions.com/precisionreboring.htm

£48 to do a twin.......... about $75?

Going off your figures why does it cost significantly more over there??

I wouldn't trust this shop with a lawn mower engine. Oldest looking bunch of dirty crap equipment I've ever seen.

You proved you could search the web and find the cheapest place on the planet...it's your forte...your search engine.

Proves nothing.

Edit: Most reputable shops do not post prices. You need to know what your working on...every engine and situation is different.

Ahem... Used pistons and cylinders here still for sale.

Cheaper than you can mess around boring and buying new pistons for..

When in doubt, ask a really cute chick with lots of brains what they think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1bm-bJvZJ8