Quote from: sledge on January 14, 2017, 03:46:40 PM
A few weeks ago I got well and truly pissed off with the amount of BS that was being spouted on this site and as a result kinda lost interest. Tonight I drifted back and hit on this thread.

If as we are being told cast parts particularly engine cases can't be welded someone had better tell this guy.....http://www.allmetalweldingservices.co.uk/MobileOnsiteMotorcycleWeldingRepairs.html

Keep up the good work, nice to see I havent been let down, remember people.......every forum needs input from the experienced 

Oh shut up. Mr72 said you generally cant weld cast parts, not that it can't be done period. He even says "or so I am told" to indicate that he's not an expert in the field. Plus, it even says right on that page you posted that welding a suzuki engine case was "one of the most difficult aluminium welding repairs" they'd done.

Cast aluminum welding is considered extremely difficult because castings can have impurities. Oil-soaked cast parts like crankcases can be even worse since there will be oil residue in every pit and surface imperfection. When the part is heated, any impurities on the surface or in the metal can boil, causing the gas to form bubbles which get trapped as the aluminum solidifies. Porous weld = not good. You'd need to make sure the part is impeccably clean before even attempting to weld something like that. Simply google "cast aluminum welding" and you will see tons of accounts on welding websites of people having difficulty welding cast parts, and that cast aluminum has a reputation for welding like crap. Even Buddha called it the "cast crap that passes for aluminum". Is welding this part possible? Sure. Is it the best, most cost effective solution? I would say definitely not.

Not that you really care about any of that though, you just wanted an excuse to appear much more knowledgeable and experienced than you actually are.

 

Quote from: qcbaker on January 18, 2017, 04:59:21 AM
Oh shut up. Mr72 said you generally cant weld cast parts, not that it can't be done period. He even says "or so I am told" to indicate that he's not an expert in the field. Plus, it even says right on that page you posted that welding a suzuki engine case was "one of the most difficult aluminium welding repairs" they'd done.

Thanks, and by the way, I missed sledge's post but I really don't care.

I went through this when my Miata engine had a transmission flange/ear broken off during shipping and nobody would weld it. Every engine building expert I talked to basically said either a) the block is a total loss if it is cracked or b) you might be able to salvage it with Plastic Steel Putty. I elected to roll the dice with the plastic steel putty and it worked fantastically. And this was cast iron which is probably easier to weld than aluminum anyway. But what do I know? I don't know how to weld.

Sure people weld on cast aluminum all the time, particularly when you have cracked cylinder heads or need to build up material to machine a part such as in a porting job. I don't know why the local experts (hey, I had a 300lb engine and didn't want to ship it to get it welded) refused to even quote welding on the cast iron block but engine builders routinely weld on other cast parts. I am no expert on the topic except for the one fact which is that I did actually successfully perform a repair on a stressed element of a cast engine block so I know an alternative to welding that actually is known to work and requires no specialized skills or real risk to attempt. If it fails then what are you left with? A cracked cast aluminum part that now someone has to attempt to weld or you replace it.

More than enough plastic steel putty to do the job can be had for $30. Worth a try, and the PSP is very useful to have around. In fact by brother used it to form bosses onto a bicycle frame that he then ground to shape and tapped to mount a 2-cycle engine on a bicycle, which worked fine, better than the engine casing's mount which is what eventually broke in that failed project. I used it to fill mountain bike disc brake post mounts on a fork and then re-drilled and re-tapped them after the original threads had pulled out. I torqued them to spec and that's extreme duty to say the least, a 200-lb guy on a 30-lb mountain bike front brake mount. I rode it like that for a long time and then sold the bike, as far as I know it's still in use. On the other hand I elected to use JB Weld to try and do the same thing with my right hand electrical control (plastic) on my GS and the threads pulled out. I should have followed my gut and used the plastic steel putty. PSP is like everything JB Weld wishes it was and then some, since it's firm enough when mixed (it's a putty) that you can form an entire part from it. I have even heard of home gun builders using it to sort of "cast" AR-15 receivers that they then can mill and machine like metal. It's remarkable stuff. Worth a try.

I'm just trying to help people out here. And to the OP, if my input is not helpful, then please ignore it. I have no ill will towards anyone on this and I don't care if I'm corrected or whether anyone thinks I know what I'm talking about. I'll just report what I have learned and what worked for me so perhaps it will help someone else to avoid making mistakes I have made or to get success with minimal cost or effort. I'm a noob when it comes to GS500s but I'm not exactly a noob to DIYing lots and lots of things. If I can help, I will. If I can't, I can't, and it's all good. 

There are topics where I actually am an expert but they rarely will come up on the GStwins forum.

I have found a radical solution...I'm like 80% swayed to pulling the trigger on this but it could backfire spectacularly. I am outrageously out of my depth building an engine, even if it all goes to plan, the frame could be out of line which means the mounts won't line up at which point I'm sunk.

But the crack could be corrosion related, and I was planning an oil change and one of the cylinder head gaskets might need changing

I don't know if the cracked case will get through the MOT and while I'm upgrading and correcting other things, it seems lazy and complacent to leave it broken. This will end one of 5 ways:

A. Leave it alone and it fails the MOT
B. Leave it alone it passes the MOT
C. Change it and learn the frame is twisted
D. Change it and cannot finish the job/make a mistake because of inexperience
E.Change it and come out on top

Thoughts, feelings, opinions?

Chris

That's an impressive crack.... so sorry to see it. 

How about a tech/wrenching party if you know experienced wrenchers nearby? Or an online, live GSTwin tech/wrenching party at multiple locations? Have we done that yet? If not, we should!

In the end, the answer should be for the following question: which choice is the absolute safest for the rider's life.... <3

pandy

P.S. Sounds as though sledge is still offering "colorful" input, eh?

Quote from: pandy on February 12, 2017, 11:08:16 AM
That's an impressive crack.... so sorry to see it. 

How about a tech/wrenching party if you know experienced wrenchers nearby? Or an online, live GSTwin tech/wrenching party at multiple locations? Have we done that yet? If not, we should!

In the end, the answer should be for the following question: which choice is the absolute safest for the rider's life.... <3

pandy

P.S. Sounds as though sledge is still offering "colorful" input, eh?

The other mounting points seem fine, and the rod in the cracked mounting will not move, this is another reason why I'm considering switching cases, opens up the option to add engine cage.

Chris

Quote from: the_63 on February 12, 2017, 01:56:15 PM
The other mounting points seem fine, and the rod in the cracked mounting will not move, this is another reason why I'm considering switching cases, opens up the option to add engine cage.
Chris

Hi Chris:

From what you say here, it sounds as though you've kinda made up your mind, given the benefits you could gain (and the heartbreak you could avoid), no?

pandy

http://durafix.com/      give this a try.

I'm close, I'm about 80% sure. Just double checked the other mounting points for signs of stress damage and there are none, which leads me to believe that the crack is not from a twist, but more likely from corrosion, or impact.

It's also dropping oil like Alex Cuthbert drops rugby balls. Looks like there's maybe 4 areas the oil is coming from, top to bottom, so a gasket overhaul is seems necessary. As it is, I can't get the bottom end out of the frame and an old thread on here showed someone with a broken front engine mount, the lip completely snapped off and the mounting rod exposed.

That durafix is cool!!

Chris

take it back to suzuki and demand you get a refund as its a defective part... 

May I ask where it says your bike was made? [should say on the frame near the VIN.]

VIN plate on frame says Japan, E-mark says Luxembourg

Chris

Quote from: the_63 on February 12, 2017, 05:05:43 PM
VIN plate on frame says Japan, E-mark says Luxembourg

Chris

these darn euro bikes... I expect this from a ducati! 

have you looked into bronze brazing? instead of welding? at this point its preventing the crack from opening up more, then it is fixing the crack itself.