Kerry, sorry for snagging this pic from an old thread, but it's helpful ( sort of... )

This picture DOESN'T WORK!? The cams don't budge ( I have the Motion Pro tool )

I know it's probably something I'm doing wrong, but can anyone assist in exactly HOW I'm supposed to get the old shim out? Do I have to take the cams off?

Quote from: TheMasterRat[...] exactly HOW I'm supposed to get the old shim out? Do I have to take the cams off?

NO!  For some folks that's the preferred method, but they usually do it because they don't have the Motion Pro tool.  Personally, I wouldn't want the headache of making sure that everything stayed correctly matched up, etc.  (Shudder!)  Having said that, when richard had a VERY tight exhaust shim (4 or 5 sizes!) he had to loosen the camshaft bolts until he could get the necessary clearance to get the shim out.

It IS tricky to use the tool the first couple of times.  But hang in there!

If you're trying to remove an intake valve shim (under the rear camshaft) the handle of the Motion Pro tool should be pointing towards the rear of the bike.  For an exhaust valve shim the handle should be pointing forward.  As I'm sure you have found, the exhaust valve shims are trickier to get at than the intake ones.  Anyway....

The "spine" under the "spoon" part of the Motion Pro tool is designed to bear down on the edge of the bucket that holds the shim (Haynes calls it a "cam follower").  But it's up to you to make sure that it doesn't push down on the shim at the same time.  If you catch the edga of the bucket just right, you should be able to rotate the tool downward far enough that it will hold itself in place.  At this point the thickness of the shim should be mostly exposed.

This is when you use a tiny screwdriver or blade or something to pop the shim out of the bucket.  WARNING: It 's a GREAT idea to have a shop towel or something covering the open, black pits that yawn wide below the camshafts.  If you pop out a shim and it falls down there... well, you'll be SORRY.  :x  This is one of the reasons that I prefer to use a penlight-sized telescoping magnet instead of a screwdriver and pliers.  Not only does the magnet "suck" the shim out of the bucket, but it keeps it from falling down the "Chasm Of No Return".

Does this make sense?  Come back again if you still can't get it.

Ok.... That was WAY more difficult than I expected. I don't even want to think how I'm going to get it back in...

The motion pro tool? Useless for me. :|

Here's what I did to get it out....  

Loosened both sides of the exhaust cam so it could lift.

Turned the notch of the ring to the middle of the engine.

Pushed down and in on the notch with a computer screwdriver ( fits perfectly into the notch. Push in so it slips under the shim )

LIFFFFFFFFFFFFFT so more than half of the shim is out of the ring. Then push it out sideways towards the center of the engine where the magnetic rod is waiting to hold it.

If there ever were numbers on this thing, there aren't anymore. I'll be picking up the dial caliper tomorrow.

Quote from: TheMasterRatLoosened both sides of the exhaust cam so it could lift.

Hmmm.  It would have to be an exhaust valve....  

I promise!  If your clearances aren't super tight the Motion Pro tool should work with little problem.  Although if you go to thinner and thinner shims over time, it should get even easier as a result.

I'll be VERY interested to hear how many sizes down (I almost guarantee it's not UP) you need to go on the shim.  I bet it will be two sizes or more, and I bet you will detect a significant difference in the bike's performance once it's right.

QUESTION:  Were you able to measure any clearance at all on this particular valve?  richard and I thought that some resistance to the feeler blade was acceptable, until we realized that we were getting the same resistance with ANY blade, whether thicker or thinner.

We convinced ourselves that there was NO clearance (we were actually compressing the valve spring as we forced a feeler blade in there), and reasoned that we might have to buy several different shim thicknesses before we got ANY clearance and then finally the CORRECT clearance.  That's when we decided to spring for the thinnest shim you can buy and designated it the "test shim".  We were (almost) guaranteed to have SOME clearance, and in fact we were able to measure with our thicker feeler blades.  More to the point, we only had to order replacement shims ONCE.

I guarantee it'll be down... This is the valve that you can feel the tightness in when rotating the crank manually. Not even my smallest ( .025mm ) feeler gauge would fit under it.

Yep.  I updated my last post while you were writing yours.  See the QUESTION and comments added at the end.

Until you get SOME clearance, the dial calipers won't do you much good.

Quote from: KerryYep.  I updated my last post while you were writing yours.  See the QUESTION and comments added at the end.

Until you get SOME clearance, the dial calipers won't do you much good.

Terrific. :| Well, I can measure what I've got now and make an educated guess as to what I'd need to get .03-.08 clearance I'd think?

Yeah, but that clearance range of .05mm is the same as the difference in thickness from one shim to the next.  In other words, your measurement needs to be just right.

That fact has always driven me crazy.  Why no half-sizes?  :dunno:

Ok... Judging from my digital dial calipers ( on sale now at harbor freight for 20$ ), It's a 2.70 shim that I pulled out from the bike. Measured a few times, just to make sure.

So far so good.  Now, if you just ... knew ... the ... clearance, you could choose your replacement shim.  :dunno:

Just got back from the dealer... Picked up two shims. One a 265 and one a 240.. 5$ /each    Gunna test the 240 first. Already cleared with the dealer that if they were the wrong ones, I could swap em for a different size...

I just hope getting it in isn't as difficult as it was getting out...

Two good shim sizes    (although I bet you end up at a 260 or 255) and at a GREAT price.  $5 each?  Cool!

Sweet. Getting them back in was a lot easier than getting them out..

So, with the 240 shim in, my clearance is .305mm leading to a currect shim size of 265  :mrgreen:  

Hallelujah!  Good for you!  :mrgreen:

So it wasn't at tight as I feared.    That's OK by me; it means that things weren't going as "badly" in the engine as I feared, too.  

Quote from: TheMasterRatSweet. Getting them back in was a lot easier than getting them out..

Yeah, they almost JUMP in don't they?  I've noticed that too.

When you get everything back together, I would be interested in general, overall review of the valve checking/adjustment process.  Not details, just impressions.

* Was it worth it to do it yourself?

* Do you think most anybody could do it, or would you caution some folks against it?

* How much easier do you think it will be the next time around?

Almost jump in... Sometimes they need a push. heh

And so ends the tale of one tight valve.

Now cross your fingers for me and hope that tank seals so I can get back on the road  :mrgreen:

Thanks for all the help Kerry  

You're just too quick on the keys!  I appended a "questionnaire" to my previous post while you were replying.  Care to respond?

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* Was it worth it to do it yourself?

Kind of. Not something I want to all the time, but I enjoy wrenching ( sometimes )

Considering how much the dealer / bike shop would charge me to do it, it was definitely worth it.

Quote
* Do you think most anybody could do it, or would you caution some folks against it?

Well, seeing as how I work tech support.... I know for a fact some people shouldn't do it, but those people aren't likely riding motorcycles.

I'm semi-mechanically inclined. I did this all without a manual, just some screenshots and minor previous knowledge. Anyone could do it, just be calm about it....

Quote
* How much easier do you think it will be the next time around?

Much easier  

I recently opened my valve cover to measure the valves clearances. How much force should one use to measure the clearance? I had to use *some* force even with 0.04 feeler on three valves...

The left cylinder exhaust valve clearance vas 0.13 (the 0.10 feeler had little resistance, the 0.15 didn't go in - so I used 0.08 and 0.05 together with some force).

  Thanks, D.

You should only feel a slight drag.

If you say you had to use force on the 0.04 you probably are just a bit under 0.04, but not 0.03 yet. You couldn't force that thin blade in if you'd have to split the gap by another 0.01 mm. Valve springs are way too hard for that.

Quote from: MarkusNYou should only feel a slight drag.

If you say you had to use force on the 0.04 you probably are just a bit under 0.04, but not 0.03 yet. You couldn't force that thin blade in if you'd have to split the gap by another 0.01 mm. Valve springs are way too hard for that.

I agree....

Can one exhaust valve with too much clearance (0.13) cause lack of power in higher RPM range (if other three valves are OK)?

 D.