freaking bike won't start!!

[Frost]

:x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x
went out this morning at 5:45 to start up my bike to go to work...but it won't start!!!...i can hear the clicking sound...but it doesn't move the tech needle at all!!...i feel that something is not engaging and doesn't crank the bike up...

i tried everything for 30 min and finally decide to take my car on a gorgeous summer morning...

anyone have any ideas? :dunno:

oh...and my bike have been acting weird lately...the idle wouldn't stay put and i suspect a carb boot leak...

[Kerry]

It sounds like there is enough "juice" from the battery to flip the starter relay, but not enough to spin the starter motor (which has to move the crankshaft, pistons, camshaft, valves, etc.)

Try charging your battery, or getting a jump from another bike or a (not-running) car.  If that works, then you'll want to monitor how well the battery keeps a charge.  You might be looking at a new battery before long, or possibly a fault in the charging system.  We'll need to analyze any additional symptoms (over time) before making any recommendations on whether (and where) you need to spend $$.

[JamesG]

dead battery, might have left it in that damned "park" mode by accident. Or maybe it was just its time to go.
:dunno:
Learn how to bump start, its pretty easy on a GS.

[dgyver]

Yep, a weak/dead battery. Been through that this weekend. Try push starting a 1 liter v-twin. Also, check for corroded battery cable connections.

[scratch]

And check the water level, if it has one. I mean, electrolyte level.

Summertime has a tendency to evaporate the water in the battery.

[MarkusN]

Not so sure about the dead Battery thing.

Had that been the cause, the continuous tries would have soon killed it completely. If (as I assume by the description, though it's not completely clear) the relay click was there through the wole session, I'd check the cabling from battery to rely to starter (and starter internal wiring). Sounds like there's something fishy with that.

Coulnd't be a mechnical problem of the starter either, as that would have drained the battery in no time as well.

[Kerry]

Yeah ... tell us more about the "click" sound Frost.  Did you get a single "click" when you pushed the starter button, or a quick series of them, or what?

If you want to get started on the diagnostics that MarkusN mentioned, take a look at THIS POST.  Hey, wait a minute!  I originally wrote that for you!  Whaddaya know?   :lol:

Did you ever say how your previous "Bike won't start!" problem turned out?

[Frost]

hey Kerry...my bike didn't start last time because of the stupid clutch switch...but if the clutch switch is not working then there wont' even be a clicking sound...

the 'clicking' sound is the sound BEFORE the engine goes VROOM...its like when you start your bike on a cold day without choke on and all you hear is the starter trying to start it up...

i tried it on and off for around 20-30 min and the battery still looks fine...i'll buy a jumper cable today and try to boost it up from my car...if that works...then i guess its a battery problem...if not...then i guess i gotta have to beg for help from all you gurus out there...

thanks a lot guys

[jiggersplat]

i just had similar symptoms and it turned out to be a bad starter relay, even though it was clicking.  put a volt meter on the starter side of the starter relay and see if you get any voltage when you try and start the bike.  my first guess would be a dead battery, though.  fyi, the relay was ~$50 from ronayers.com

dan

[Frost]

checked the battery...and it's all fine

i've even tried bump starting it...but still no luck...

any more things i shuld check??

thanks

[BustemUpBob]

Try Pop Starting it.
Where you Let your bike roll down hill or have a bud push ya.

[Kerry]

any more things i shuld check??

I get the feeling that you haven't gone through the (illustrated!   ) procedure in the post that I linked to in my last message.  At least, you haven't mentioned any results.  :dunno:

* Does the starter motor spin when you short the starter relay with a screwdriver?

* Do you have an ohmmeter?  What reading do you get in Step 6?

* Do you have a Clymer manual?  If so, have you gone through the

Starter Troubleshooting section in Chapter 2: TROUBLESHOOTING as mentioned in the linked thread above (see TonyW's first post and my last one)?[/list:u]Keep us informed....

[Frost]

hey Kerry,
I've read through and tested out the obvious from your linked post...

i'll try to short the starter relay...but what are the symtoms of a faulty starter relay?...since i have a spark for the plugs...doesn't that mean it's working just fine??

i dont' have a ohm meter

i've already read and tested out Chapter 2 from the clymers manual...but the obvious solution just didn't cut it...

this is getting so frustrated...i dont' even have transportation to go to work now...

[Kerry]

what are the symtoms of a faulty starter relay?

From Step 6 in that other post (emphasis added):

It [the ohmmeter] should show between 3.0 and 5.0 ohms. If you get the "infinite resistance" reading shown in the photo while the starter button is depressed (and after hearing a "CLICK!" from the relay) then the starter relay is bad.

...since i have a spark for the plugs...doesn't that mean it's working just fine??

No.  The ignition system and the starter motor system are entirely separate.  The starter relay is part of the system that gets the starter motor to turn, and to spin the engine around.  The ignition system comes into play once the engine is spinning, and sends impulses to the spark plugs so they will spark at the right time in the 4-cycle ... er, cycle.

BTW, if the starter motor isn't turning, I wonder how you're getting spark?  Perhaps I misunderstood, and your starter motor IS working?

i dont' have a ohm meter

That's OK.  Skip to Tip #2 at the bottom of that same post and read about how to perform an equivalent test with a super-simple unit that costs a few bucks from Harbor Freight or AutoZone or Home Depot or WalMart or even (possibly) your grocery store.

I just noticed that Harbor Freight has discontinued the first item that I linked to in that other post, so there's no picture....  :x   But here is a perfectly-suited unit that I recently bought for a few dollars in the small automotive section of my local grocery store:

i've already read and tested out Chapter 2 from the clymers manual...but the obvious solution just didn't cut it...

Time to try the non-obvious solutions?  :dunno:

this is getting so frustrated...i dont' even have transportation to go to work now...

If it's that serious, surely it's worth getting a $3 tester and going through everything step-by-step.  Try not to get exasperated.  The bike worked recently, right?  Then something has changed, and 9 times out of 10 it's not anything major or expensive.  It just needs to be pursued until it surrenders ... to logic applied to a pile of accumulated facts.  

[Frost]

thanks again kerry...but it turns out that i wont' be able to work on my bike until friday...my work is an hour a way from home...so i decided to stay in the vincinity for a few days...

this blows

[Kerry]

That's a drag!

OK, let us know what you can ... when you can.

[Frost]

I tried to diagnose the problem today...

i tried to spray WD-40 on the carb boot to check for leaks...and it does not help at all...it still won't work...

i took the tank off to check for hoses damage and if there are any loose hoses...and i couldn't find any...

i short the starter too and the clicks and turns over....but the engine does not fire

i also tested the sparks plug...and there IS a blue spark...but I'm not really sure how bright or big it's suppose to be...

so I drained out the carbs by unscrewing the drain screw...and one side of teh carbs drain gas out until empty...and the other just keep on leaking gas out...

so does this mean that my float needle is stuck?...if so...i do HAVE to take the carbs apart??

[Kerry]

I drained out the carbs by unscrewing the drain screw...and one side of teh carbs drain gas out until empty...and the other just keep on leaking gas out...

so does this mean that my float needle is stuck?...if so...i do HAVE to take the carbs apart??

_I_ would, just to give 'em a good cleaning.  Do you know if they have ever been cleaned before?  And has the bike ever sat for long periods of time with fuel in it?

[Frost]

Carbs were cleaned and synced three or four months ago...how should i clean the carbs now if i can't even start up the bike???

and no...this was an overnight thing...i had probelms the morning before and it took em 30 min to start it up...but the day after it wont' even start at all...

[Kerry]

Carbs were cleaned and synced three or four months ago...how should i clean the carbs now if i can't even start up the bike???

How were the carbs cleaned last time?  By putting carb cleaner additive into the fuel tank and running it through the system?

IF that's the case then I would:

* Take the carbs off
* Take them apart (One at a time!)
* Soak the jets and float valve seat (minus the O-ring) in a pool of carb cleaner from a spray can for a good 20 minutes and then
* Blow those items out with compressed air (if possible)
* Reassemble everything
* Try again![/list:u]I'm not saying that your carbs are definitely dirty.  I'm saying that you need to start from what you KNOW.  If you don't know for sure that the carbs are clean (especially the jets and float valves) then everything else pales in comparison.

We can certainly keep trying other things before taking the bike apart; it can be easy to make things worse once the carbs are opened up.  If you don't feel confident about tackling the cleaning process, then let's stop and think for a bit ... review everything we know ... and come up with a plan of action.

I'll come back (as soon as I'm caught up on the other threads) and read through all of your recent "Bike won't start!" topics looking for clues ... K?