I'm cool. About to get into the sauce again. I'm not going to be on the pc pissing people off tonight though, lol.

Quote from: pandy

Quote from: fat_sac:lol:  :lol:  :lol: I love waking up and seeing who I pissed off when I was drunk.  :lol:    :lol:  :lol:

That makes one of you!  

Hope your hangover isn't too bad (but bad enough that you don't do that too often). :p:p:p

QuoteUnless you're Pyschic, which I DOUBT, you have no idea what other riders are thinking as you pass, so CUT THE CRAP. As for wrecking with and without helmets, I've done both, and walked away from totaled bikes.

Right...not psychic...thus the question:  what motivates people to not wear helmets?  You seem to be the only respondant that rides/has ridden without a helmet (at least the only one that will admit it)...so you seem to be my sample group, so I'll ask--I'm not trying to be critical...I'm not trying to chide you for it...I'm not trying to be negative at all....but...

Why?

I can justify wearing a helmet...this seems to make sense to me.  Not wearing one seems to defy logic.  I'm not trying to generalize or stereotype people.  I just don't understand the thought process.

 

there are some things which should be enforced, if people aren't smart enough to do it themselves. Helmets and seatbelts are two of those things.

They should be made mandatory...flat out.

I don't get this really childish thing of "oh if they don't want to wear it..its there choice"

The government is here to protect people, mostly from themselves or other people. One of the major reasons why motorcycle insurance is so high is the really really high crash/accident rate.

Its been generally proven that people don't always do things that work to there benefit...we see examples time and time again.

So its really a case of big brother protecting us from ourselves, if we're not smart enough to know that wearing a helmet is the only choice.

well redshift....

smoking has some benefits/advantages. I can't see any benefit/advantage to not wearing a helmet.

its like a lose/lose situation. The wind bothers you, you feel vulnerable, things hit you in the face...

At least with smoking there is some sort of a reason to smoke.

Madness...

Quote from: bannerwell redshift....

smoking has some benefits/advantages. I can't see any benefit/advantage to not wearing a helmet.

its like a lose/lose situation. The wind bothers you, you feel vulnerable, things hit you in the face...

At least with smoking there is some sort of a reason to smoke.

Madness...

At the risk of sounding like Ed here, the advantages/benefits of both are that the practitioner believes they will be better off than the converse.

We all make decisions about the risk we'll take on.  We need to accept the results if it doesn't go as planned.

I wear gear because when I weigh the balance of consequences, I want something reasonable between me and the scenery if we collide.  It's that simple to me. with or without society making rules to enforce that line of thinking.

 I think it is  a freedom issue. We are the land of the free, so give us a choice.

  I lived in Az for 25 years, learned to ride in Az. I got my 1st bike when I was 14. I rode with a helmet only when I wanted to. As people grow their choices change, I now see the light and would never ride without gear now.  Young guns feel like nothing can hurt them, so they live their lives on the edge. We all went through that period of our life. Younger people tend to do what everone else id doing, so if they see people riding without they will tend to do the same. Peer pressure thingy.

  Another way to look at it is " do as I say not as do I do" we all know this does not work. You learn by example, if you see people riding helmetless, smoking and drinking. You going to think if they can I can, no matter how many times your told it's bad.  Smokers beget smokers, hemletless beget helmetless so on and so forth.

   It is all about what you learn as a young person. As you grow you will start to make your own choices....I choose to wear gear, not smoke and never drive while intoxicated. When I was younger I did the opposite. The law did not make me change my behavior, I did. You want to make people safer, show them how to be safer. Some will some won't. If they get hurt it their choice, let them pay for their mistake..shoot the personal injury lawyers.

 

Quote from: bannerThe government is here to protect people,

Does anyone here really believe that?

Can anyone point me to where in the Constitution, or a federal, state, or local law, where it it says that?

Lets not limit it to the USA, show me a law from anyplace in the world that says the government is here to protect people.

The government is set up to protect society as a whole, (in other words, itself) not individual people from their free choices.

Catching up on posts...thanks to everyone for the insight...

Quoteif you see people riding helmetless, smoking and drinking.

Which hand are they operating the throttle with?  I expect it would have to be the one with the cigarette in it, since it would be hard to hold a beer and work the throttle with the same hand...but I'm just a newb.  

QuoteAt least with smoking there is some sort of a reason to smoke.

I can't really think of one that makes sense...and I -am- a smoker.  I can think of a lot of justifications I make to myself, although most of them are more "reasons not to quit" vs. "reasons to smoke", i.e,:

* I expect I'd just start smoking again (I've quit twice already).
* I don't want to gain weight (both times, I put on lbs.)
* I find it moderately calming.
* I use the time away from my desk to take a mental break, noodle over problems, etc. (of course, I could just get coffee...but I drink way too much coffee already)
* Dammit...I enjoy smoking.

None of these reasons are good reasons to -start- smoking.  That's just stupid.  

QuoteThe government is here to protect people

I think you have that a little bit wrong...the government is here to protect THE people (that is, all of them collectively) not -a person- (individually).  The argument against manditory helmets/seat belts is that not wearing one or the other doesn't hurt anyone except yourself, and that usually precludes legislative involvement.  The real reason that we have seat belt/helmet laws has nothing to do with protecting the people...it is entirely because of insurance company lobbyists.  More seatbelt/helmet use == less expensive claims == happy, more profitable insurance companies.

My feeling (and I'm not looking for people to neccessarily agree) is that we should really just leave it in Darwin's hands.  *shrug*  But...I also think that insurance premiums should be appropriate to the risk...you should be able to get a "with helmet only" policy (at a reduced premium) that denys claims if a loss occurs while riding helmetless.  I know that I pay a higher homeowner's insurance premium because I smoke...let people make their own choice, but put them in the appropriate risk category.

I'm fairly certain that even if it wasn't manditory, I'd still wear a helmet...I just don't trust other people enough.

QuoteAnother way to look at it is " do as I say not as do I do" we all know this does not work.

Right...that's my connundrum.  You can either -force- people to wear helmets through regulation (which obviously lots of people are against), or you can find a way to encourage safety, appropriate gear, etc.  Based on what I see, at least some states that don't require helmets don't seem to be doing to well encouraging people to wear them, based on my observation of a very small % of people that choose to wear helmets.  I was wondering if there were other states that see different results.

As a related note, I rode for a few minutes with my shield open, and couldn't believe the amount of dust, wind, bugs, and other crap that tried to get into my eyes...made me even more perplexed about the no helmet choice.

Quote from: bannerwell redshift....

smoking has some benefits/advantages.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  WHAT !?!? Name one benefit to smoking..

Cancer? Nasty teeth? Bad breath? Smelling like a$$?

:lol:

Wasn't Ronald Reagan an actor?? hmmm.......  Badger if he hasn't already ed is going to call you a "f#$%^&* idiot liberal"   and then he is going to say that liberals are just as bad as islamic terrorist.  Just wanted to warn you!!!!!    

QuoteBadger if he hasn't already ed is going to call you a "f#$%^&* idiot liberal"

*looks around*  What did I say?

Special note:  Simply being from Massachusetts -does not- make one a liberal.

I don't see how having traffic laws on public roads violates civil liberties or "freedoms".
Not wearing a helmet is no different than not having other proper safety equipment, like working lights, good tires, etc.

Quote from: Badger

QuoteBadger if he hasn't already ed is going to call you a "f#$%^&* idiot liberal"

*looks around*  What did I say?

Special note:  Simply being from Massachusetts -does not- make one a liberal.

Simply being from Yale -does not- make one intelligent.

i didn't mean to say smoking is good for you....but it has benefits at the same time. If it didn't people wouldn't do it.

It calms people down, helps them think...relaxs them..etc..

It has its negative sideffects as well...but still there are positive/negatives to it.

When you riding without a helmet, without a jacket or gear....then i don't see any benefit to that. There is only harm.

I don't undersand how bugs, rocks, etc hitting you in the face is a fun thing. Also for the most part (in most places) the jacket doesn't really keep you any hotter than without one (there are mesh jackets, gloves, pants out there).

So i really don't see any benefit to riding without gear, but all the potential harm..

I'm a newb rider who learned in California, Bay area.  Yes, we have a helmet law.  One thing I have enjoyed about the area is that there is a bit of peer pressure to wear the rest of the gear as well.  There are definitely the squidly types, wearing the flip-flops, but the majority of people are wearing gloves, jacket and full face helmet.  I can't imagine going on the bike without all that plus boots (plus, Sidi Vertebra chromos, so fun...).  
I used to be a cyclist and was in some nasty scrapes.  Never destroyed a helmet but definitely was glad it was on.  Dunno, some people think they are invincible.  Some think it won't happen to them....  I am all for letting people do what they want to do.  I just fully admit that I don't understand why a lot of people do what they do    Go Darwin....

Quote from: jbeaber  Go Darwin....

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: